Graham Wright (A*STAR Agency for Science, Technology and Research)
Welcome to The Microscopists, a bite sized bio podcast hosted by Peter O'Toole, sponsored
Peter O'Toole:about changing from being a PhD from pure research into about changing from being a PhD in pure research into running a core facility and what motivated him to do that.
Graham Wright:Over time, we sort of started developing it more and more in the kind of core facility model. So we we started to share those instruments with the wider audience, institute neighboring institutes or or the wider Aries star.
Peter O'Toole:Also, what it's like switching from a career in the UK to Singapore and all the advantages that that's enabled him to achieve.
Graham Wright:He's got historic links to to to the UK, and English is the the main, main least spoken language. There's 4 official languages, but you you find with English, everywhere in Singapore. So so that it was it's quite an easy place to to come and either to visit or or to certainly to live and establish a a kinda, life here.
Peter O'Toole:Plus, we talk about his hobbies and how he balances his family, both in the UK and over in Singapore as well.
Graham Wright:I think the the the realities of going in winter, if we've been a few times for Christmas, obviously, it's a bit of a shock. But even that the novelty of being cold and and Yeah. You know, when you breathe out and the steam comes out or condensation comes out, they're they're fascinated by those sort of things because they never get exposed to that here.
Peter O'Toole:All in this episode of The Microscopists. Hi. Welcome to the Microscris. Today, I'm joined by Graham Wright from Astar over in Singapore. Morning, Graham.
Peter O'Toole:Good evening, Graham.
Graham Wright:Yeah. Good good afternoon. Good morning to you. Glad to be here.
Peter O'Toole:So this is quite a lot of people I've I've spoke to who have gone sort of, which way which direction, east to west. But you're one of the few scientists who've gone west some way east. What inspired you to go to Singapore?
Graham Wright:It's that's a it's a good question. And I as as you know, and maybe we'll get to, I've been here for quite a long time. But it was it was a chance opportunity, to a large degree. I was studying, for my PhD in Edinburgh, and, looking to what to do next. And my supervisor at the time, Nick Nick Reid in Edinburgh, connected to me to someone who was interested in in looking for a microscopist of some sort or someone to run a microscopy facility in Singapore.
Graham Wright:And kind of the rest is history. It was it was a chance chance encounter, a meeting at a conference with this person, Greg Jed, and that that led to, an opportunity to come visit Singapore and and later to run a facility at Timasek Life Science Laboratory where I first started out here.
Peter O'Toole:So what what year was that?
Graham Wright:That was at the end of 2007 that I first moved here. So 16 years ago, which is frightening to think about that I've been
Peter O'Toole:here for so long. Look. Do you have children at that point?
Graham Wright:Nope. We the plan during my PhD was that I would move down to London where my then, girlfriend was living, if if, opportunity allowed. And fortunately, I persuaded her to come come join me in in Singapore, take a take a chance, now married to the to that same girlfriend, Charlotte, and we have 3 children, together. But, no, it was a much easier logistical move, moving here, back then.
Peter O'Toole:Yeah. So so we'll come on to that then. So what what was your degree in?
Graham Wright:My my bachelor's was, in plant sciences, which was also at Edinburgh, but it was, and the way the biological sciences is structured at Edinburgh, you go in as bio biological sciences, and then you can specialize into the 3rd 4th year, of the degree course. So I went in not knowing which of those honors years to do, and fell in love with with plant science, but specifically mycology, within that, which was the study of, fungal cell biology or or fungi as a whole, partly because of microscopy, because the the lecturer, which was Nick Reid, who I made reference to earlier, was using confocal microscopy and imaging these incredible kind of dynamic processes in in, filamentous fungi in their, hyphal networks, and was showing this data when he was teaching on the botany course or on the the plant sciences course, and and showing this microscopy data in 2 d and in 3 d and in live cell imaging. And that really sparked a passion for that subject, for mycology, but really, for the application of microscopy to that subject, which is what led, kind of fortuitously to my to my PhD project in that group.
Peter O'Toole:So you so you stayed in your undergraduate to your PhD at the same place then?
Graham Wright:Same same place. Yeah. But, obviously, changed changed a lot in that. So my my undergrad was was plant science as a whole, but, that that kinda ignited my interest, which which through conversations with Nick, through my final year project and so on sort of led to the development of a of a PhD project, that he he'd, kind of put together, as a collaboration between the physics department in Edinburgh, who were optical physicists, implementing and inventing novel microscopy techniques, and trying to find biological applications for that, which was all centered around his fungal cell biology interests. And that's really what defined my my project was application development for for laser tweezers or optical tweezers, and how we can use them to study fungal cells in different ways, everything from how they grow to how they germinate, how they communicate with one another.
Graham Wright:So it was really a tool the tools were developed, of course, but it was really finding novel applications for those tools.
Peter O'Toole:So technologically speaking, that's super geeky. Yeah.
Graham Wright:A little bit. I mean, there were some incredible, optical physicists at Edinburgh who were were pulling these systems together. So I I can't ever claim to be an engineer or a physicist, but, it was that, you know, they were building systems that were not generally that accessible to to every biologist, but I think I was being encouraged to be a microscopist from from that early stage and and get in there, work with them, understand the systems, and and make use of them. So I had a supervisor in in the physics department and a supervisor in the biology department, and I would have to have, you know, supervisor meetings with each of them. And it was great if they were on their own because I could talk about biologists biology to the physicist, and I could talk about physics to the biologist.
Graham Wright:When they were in the room at the same time, it's a bit more dangerous because they they could both sort of, properly understand it more than I could in both domains.
Peter O'Toole:So I was going to ask about how you found having 2 split supervisors. How often did your physics supervisor drive you in one direction, but the biology will then pull you back and take you back in a different direction? How was that fairly harmonious, or was there sometimes you you you cherry pick maybe what you liked one was saying and what the other was saying?
Graham Wright:Yeah. It's a good one. I I was kind of in the middle. It was pretty harmonious, relationship. There was interest on both sides because of the the sort of novelty that the biology brought to the physicists physics department and vice versa.
Graham Wright:I I don't remember many, many particularly difficult moments. I think it was, it was an enthusiasm for the project, because of perhaps the novel outcomes that that were going on through it. And as I said, some great, physicists. There was one, Sander Joachim Alt, who was really the building these systems, and I would interact mostly with him. Well, I had to give, in institutional seminars, internal seminars of of both forums, which was always always through all sorts of different questions, as you can imagine, from 2 different disciplines.
Peter O'Toole:So so I have a question then. In your current job, do your users think you are a biologist or a physicist? Do they ask you, oh, did you do a physics degree, or did you do a biology degree?
Graham Wright:I think I don't I've never asked, but I I assume they, they think I'm a biologist. And the conversations we have are around, around biology, not not so much physics. We're we're we're not in in the the facility that I run out here in in Singapore is is the A Star Microscopy platform, which is a central core facility, as as you know. We're not we're not building and and developing novel microscopy tools or or building sort of a kind of precommercial releases. We're we're exclusively housing commercial, microscopes.
Graham Wright:So it's so it's I I perhaps I come across less less as a kind of physics y person because of that.
Peter O'Toole:I think it's fine until you start training them sort of the depths of confocal or the depths of super bears or the depths of crap. And at that point, that's when they go, oh, did you do a physics degree then?
Graham Wright:Yeah. I'll try it. Probably strive to keep it digestible both for my own sake and and for theirs. That it's, you know, it's often the conversations we have with our users who are who are predominantly biologists are about how to use this instrument for my, my experiment, how to get the most out of it, but without going into every nuance of the the kind of technical details, around them.
Peter O'Toole:Yeah. I I don't think I'm going to define nuances. I just think that they think I'm such a bad biologist. I must have been a physicist and the physicist, the bad piece of space in the biology. So I think I'm hiding somewhere in the middle.
Graham Wright:I think you'd have to ask the users probably for the inner truth on that one, actually.
Peter O'Toole:So, take I'm going to take you way back. So when when you were do you remember the first job that you ever wanted to do as a child?
Graham Wright:Yeah. I I think growing up, my parents would probably back this up. I think I always said I wanted to be a pilot. Mhmm. And in in my mind, from from memory, it was a civil aviation pilot, and I had this kind of very kinda romantic dream of what it was like.
Graham Wright:For whatever reason, I pursued my interest usually when it when it came to to school and and, you know, studying and so on. So I pursued my interest. I loved biology always at secondary school. I I was actually torn between biology and geography when it came to a levels and and applying to university and so on and chose chose biology. But yeah.
Graham Wright:So I pursued my interest in what what I was enjoying at the time, what I was sort of thriving off as a topic, and and, I don't think biology naturally leads to being a pilot. So I went off on this, this tangent of plant sciences and mycology and microscopy.
Peter O'Toole:So where did the plant science come from?
Graham Wright:Yeah. Good one. So so so as I said, Edinburgh structure of the degree at the time, at least in Edinburgh, was that you entered biological sciences. And then through the choices of courses that you did, that sort of limited the the honors years available to you. And there were 14 honors years when you first oh, it's a Scottish university, so it's an extra year.
Graham Wright:So you had, 14 available to you. And then as you narrowed it down, you got less and less. But I, I was interested in the the mycology as I explained earlier, and I enjoyed the plant sciences a lot, not not so much from the ecology side more or botany side more from the kind of, the sort of cell biology level of plant science. And there was some excellent teachers, and, faculty and research going on in Edinburgh, in that space at the time, which which was really kind of motivating and inspiring. And so I again followed my interests, which is perhaps the story of, of my career in many respects.
Peter O'Toole:Okay. So you did your degree then onto the PhD, as you said. Did you go on to a postdoctoral? I didn't.
Graham Wright:So in during my PhD, I I kinda made the, the decision that I wanted to go into microscopy and facilities management and and specifically, And at the time, that that was kind of a quite a newish thing to do, but my my lab had spawned a few people. So Sam Swift had gone to Dundee at the time to to establish a facility there with Jason, and a few others had gone and either worked closely with or or been associated with with core microscopy facilities. And I I was very passionate about the, you you know, microscopy. I'd I'd got involved in teaching people how to use the confocal that we had in the lab from all the all the labs in the department, and sort of set my sights on this being a potential opportunity. And then as I as I explained, the the right chance came up at the right time.
Graham Wright:It just happened to be halfway around the world in in Singapore. But, so, yeah, I was quite focused. I made a clear decision not to pursue a postdoc. I think I was I didn't like how narrow I was getting into one particular topic with a with a PhD and but I did enjoy working with lots of other different people and and using the the common tool set as it was the confocal for for studying all these different organisms, different, you know, problems and challenges largely around, plant biology because that's the department I was in. But, yeah, thrived off that.
Graham Wright:So so a few people had sort of treading the path ahead of me and then opened up my eyes to this opportunity, and then was lucky, I guess, with the timing.
Peter O'Toole:Yeah. I think 2007 is quite foresightful to think that's what you want to do and find a job. And because you say it was the core facilities back in 2007 were only really emerging. They were only just starting to gather a bit of momentum. So to know those jobs existed at a PhD is quite impressive.
Peter O'Toole:As you say, so it's yeah. Nick's Lab and
Graham Wright:and I think Nick's Lab was a lot of it. He he'd got me, involved with the Royal Microscopical Society, of course, and and I think that's where I first met you was a, a micro science, as it was called at the time, down in London in Excel. And and up again, that opened my eyes to there was a microscopy community out there. There was a community of people that was teaching other people how to use microscopes or facilitating access to advanced microscopy. Yeah.
Graham Wright:So so I'd sort of been my eyes have been open to it in that sense. Lucky that the opportunity came up at the right time. I I was then very, very lucky. I got secured the job in Singapore, and there was a had had to wait a period of time while they worked out the visas and the employment pass and so on. And at the time, the the director of the institute I was moving to is also changing over, and, Steve Cohen from EMBL was moving to be the director of this institute in Singapore.
Graham Wright:So he, helped arrange for me to visit the ALMS in EMBL for a couple of months, en route, to Singapore, if you like. And I spent spent a great time there. Stefan Therion was there. Timo Zimmerman was just leaving, I think, at that time.
Peter O'Toole:He was
Graham Wright:on a visit back from from Barcelona when he was going there, and it it was fantastic opportunity. Right? I got to see how, you know, one of the early facilities, one of the most developed facilities at the time was running and how how well supported it was. Kota was in the neighboring room doing the image analysis and and that side of things. So, really, that helped set me on a path as I arrived in Singapore to try and emulate that in some way or at least bring bring the relevant bits of that to the facility in Singapore.
Peter O'Toole:Three megastars of cool facilities there, aren't they, Stephanie?
Graham Wright:Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. What a what a a what a on on a sites was also there. I think he was on his way to EPFL at that time.
Graham Wright:So lots of lots of people there, but also that network. Right? The the people I've just listed who have been phenomenally helpful, to me when I arrived in Singapore, I could I could ask them, you know, for advice and knowledge. Rainer, Peppercock, of course, was was there overseeing AMF at the time. So some some brilliant connections and and subsequently had lots of chances to interact with that community at other meetings or in, you know, opportunities to travel and so on.
Peter O'Toole:So so thinking about oh, we'll come back to that in a moment, actually. So now you see more Raina and Timo in different meetings now. But when you moved to Singapore, what did you think you'd miss most?
Graham Wright:From a, I guess, from a personal side or a Yeah. Or culture. What did I think I'd miss most before I left? I was really worried you couldn't get Yorkshire tea here for a while, but but it turns out you can. So that's okay.
Graham Wright:And I I remember, but as I said, my then girlfriend, we're, we're, you know, we were we're sort of exploring whether you can get this, that, and the others. It was comfort foods and and that sort of thing. The reality is it's very easy to live, in Singapore. It's, an incredible place, and and you can get most things from most different cultures and parts of the world. But most of the the food that is produced locally or or, you know, served locally is phenomenal.
Graham Wright:So, I think I think in truth, probably in in in hindsight, the the miss the most is probably family. Right? Because it's a long, long way. There's a there's a big time difference. 8 hours, as you know, at the minute.
Graham Wright:And, that that that's we're sort of a long way from home, but things like, well, it was Skype originally now, Zoom and FaceTime and so on. It makes it much easier to be this far away, from home because you you get to see see one another and have these kind of conversations, which is is quite different to a an isolated phone call.
Peter O'Toole:And how often do you get back, or how often do your parents come over visit you?
Graham Wright:So pretty much, I'll go home once a year. May maybe if I'm lucky with a conference that I'm attending in in in Europe, I get maybe get another chance. So once once a year, generally in summer. Winter's a bit of a shock coming coming from a tropical country, like, you've been away for so long. But, you know, once a year, I'd go there, and my parents, on average, I guess, have visited here, once a year as well.
Graham Wright:So so still still plenty of plenty of visits, but it's not not quite down the road. Right?
Peter O'Toole:Yeah. And quality visits because they're longer probably periods of time that
Graham Wright:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So so it's in that sense, it's a long way away, but we've sort of maintained that.
Peter O'Toole:And you're paying me to Manchester Way?
Graham Wright:Yep. Yeah. I grew I grew up in South Manchester, and they're still there in in Sale. So that's that's still home. My my wife's parents are based down in, Farnham in Surrey, which is obviously a bit bit of a distance away from, also accessible.
Peter O'Toole:Yeah. But if you go and visit your parents and from Singapore to Manchester, not only cold but continuously damp. Not not not the terribly damp pools.
Graham Wright:Yeah. No. It's it's not so short and sharp in Manchester. It's sort of long and prolonged.
Peter O'Toole:And for Mancunian to actually say you want Yorkshire tea, is is that allowed?
Graham Wright:Definitely allowed. It's definitely the best tea. Sure. Don't think there's a Yorkshire tea. An equivalent of it on his side.
Peter O'Toole:And so when you went to Singapore, what did you find most challenging on a personal level rather than work?
Graham Wright:Honestly, I think it's the heat. I'm physiologically not designed to live in in in the tropical country. Was born and bred in Manchester as we've discussed, and I think I'm much more suited to that climate. In terms of, you know, cultural things to address, as I said earlier, it's it's it's really quite an easy place to assimilate into. There's there's a a mix of everything here.
Graham Wright:It's a very kind of diverse place. Obviously, it's got historic links to to to the UK and English is the the main mainly spoken language. There's 4 official languages, but you you'll find with English, everywhere in Singapore. So so that it was it's quite an easy place to to come and either to visit or or to certainly to live and establish a a kinda life here. So I didn't there wasn't that much that was challenging apart from it was just really hot and sweaty the whole time.
Graham Wright:It's it's continually, you know, over 30 degrees and a 100 or so percent humidity. So it's it's quite a a a strong climate. Obviously, it's air conditioned inside, so it helps Inside.
Peter O'Toole:But one of your hobbies is triathlons. You sent me a picture, which is you with your because you triathlon.
Graham Wright:They're they're my kids. Yep.
Peter O'Toole:Getting a road bike and, your children. How do you train then if you're not, don't like the heat, and you're in
Graham Wright:Singapore, easy?
Peter O'Toole:Quite warm.
Graham Wright:Yeah. I think I think the the when you're exercising and you get hot and bothered, that's okay because you're exercising. It's more the that I find the heat a problem when you've gotta try and get to rush to a meeting, and look reasonably presentable, and and that's difficult to do and to so so I don't mind getting hot on a on a bike or running or whatever, but it's, you don't wanna plan to arrange an important meeting an hour later because you're gonna still be very red faced and and attempting to cool down for a long, long time. How do you find the endurance aspect, though?
Peter O'Toole:Endurance aspect, though? Because, like I said, certainly when I came over Singapore, running was great fun for 10 ks. Yep. Realized actually going more than 10 k is gonna you get I I I was gonna start to feed. So
Graham Wright:how do you It's it's hot. It's hot. And so the secret so I I cycle mainly. I do do some triathlons, but mostly I cycle. And I've got a great group of friends here, that I cycle with, the weekends.
Graham Wright:And the secret is to to go early so you get home before the heat of the day kicks in and before the traffic wakes up and the roads become a bit more kinda chaotic. But we go early. We we meet at 7 o'clock in the morning. We're home by 9 o'clock in the morning. And with with that, you can almost do a decent loop of Singapore because it's not a very big place.
Peter O'Toole:Yep.
Graham Wright:And, yeah, that that's how we deal with it. So I wouldn't ever go for a bike ride and if I could avoid it in the the heat of the day. It's just as much less pleasant experience. And then carry as many water bottles as you can conceivably squeeze on the bike. That's the other secret, which for running is very hard.
Graham Wright:Right? Because you tend not to run with a lot of water, and and it, is extremely
Peter O'Toole:dehydrating. So we saw your children in your previous picture, and here's a picture of your family. Yeah. For your children, how old are your children now?
Graham Wright:So Hartley in the middle there, he's, 11 years old. Then Connie near me is, 9, and Otto has just turned 6.
Peter O'Toole:I suppose they've only known life in Singapore.
Graham Wright:Absolutely. Yeah.
Peter O'Toole:What do they make of it when they come back to the UK?
Graham Wright:They they love it. I mean, they it it's always a visit to the grandparents' houses or to, you know, see friends that maybe move from Singapore or otherwise, friends and family. And and as I say before, we always go in summer, so the weather's usually pretty clement. And they have a great time, and and it's it's all a big adventure. I think I think the the the realities of going in winter, if we've been a few times for Christmas, obviously, is a bit of a shock.
Graham Wright:But even that, the novelty of being cold and and you know, when you breathe out and the steam comes out, condensation comes out, they're they're fascinated by those sort of things because they never get exposed to that here. And a funny one is that here, if if your windows condense up, it's on the on the opposite side of what it is at home. It's on the outside rather than the inside, because the heat is obviously reversed. But, the things that they notice, things like that, is is always fascinating to watch because they're just not used to a colder climate. And, you know, the the vegetation's different.
Graham Wright:The trees are different. The the kind of animals you see here are basically quite different. We don't really see many, in Singapore, popping pets.
Peter O'Toole:So you've you've been there now all, oh, 15, 16, 17, 17 years.
Graham Wright:16 at the moment. Yeah. On the way to 17.
Peter O'Toole:How long did you think you would be over there when you left when we left left UPenn?
Graham Wright:I think we we thought we'd be here for, like, 2 or 3 years, and go and enjoy it and then probably come back. And we we haven't. Right? I've changed jobs once I or changed employers once I moved from Team Assek Life Science Laboratory after 3 years to Astar, which is the agency for science, technology, and research where I where I still am, although my role has changed significantly over that time. And the jobs are typically based on a a contracted period, so 3 years of plus.
Graham Wright:And every time we've got to the point of renewing, we've, it's been a no brainer. We've chosen and wanted to to renew and and stay for longer. And then suddenly you look back and you're like, what? We've been here for 15 15 plus years. Yeah.
Graham Wright:It was never in the pan, but, it's been a lot of fun and I think testament to how much we we've enjoyed our time here as well.
Peter O'Toole:So you mentioned lots of role changes within Astar. What have those changes been?
Graham Wright:So so when I came across, to Astar, I I joined an institute called the Institute of Medical Biology, which is within well, is within, Astar, one of the one of the biomedical research institutes. And I joined as their microscopy facility manager, I think was was my title. And they had a microscopy facility called the IMB microscopy unit, which, was overseen by a PI called Suhail Ahmed, who is a great great mentor and person to work with who who helped, had had established this facility in a relatively young institute. And it was sort of it was a bit of a core facility, but it was some of the instrumentation was very focused on his lab's own interest, which were around f techniques, FCS, FLIM, etcetera, and upon pushing those techniques, for those applications. But it also had confocals that were shared with the rest of the institute, live cell imaging systems, and so on.
Graham Wright:So that that's where I started in 8 Star. And over time, we sort of started developing it more and more in the kind of core facility model. So we we started to share those instruments with the wider audience, into neighboring institutes or or the wider Astar, then more broadly with the Singapore community, the the big 2 big universities here, the NUS and NTU, that started using some of the instrumentation tapping onto our expertise, particularly when it was a unique capability, of course. And then we started to charge and and have the cost recover and some of the other factors of of running a facility started to come to bear because it was growing in scale and size and user base. And it sort of evolved over time, and I I stayed doing doing that for many, many years of growing the role, expanding to cover all the techniques.
Graham Wright:We we added an electron microscopy capability. We, you know, accumulated more novel techniques, super resolution, and and so on. And then we started kind of merging some of these capabilities with other institutes, capabilities to make sure it was a kind of more holistic, core facility or central facility. So in in that time frame, my my my title changes a little bit as as well as did my roles and responsibilities as we sort of evolved the facility. And then more recently, I've I've changed, and I now sadly don't do much microscopy in terms of very hands on actually using the microscopes myself, but I've transitioned over to an organization called the Research Support Center, which as the name suggests, we're here to to support research, and that takes various different forms.
Graham Wright:Everything from overseeing and and making sure the core facilities or technology platforms, as we call them, are well run and coordinated and available to the community. We also try and alleviate the a lot of the administrative burden of the the scientists that are running the facilities. We do their billing, for example, and some of the marketing promotion, inquiry handling, things front office and back office, the way we refer to it. And that that's, sort of more managerial kind of over oversight role. And then RSC, the research support support center, does lots of other things.
Graham Wright:We run a consumables business, so we buy in bulk, the best price possible and sell it to the research community to to drive efficiencies and make sure that we're getting a good price for for these goods. We run real critical central support services like a glassware washing facility, and sterilization facility, biohazard waste handling, and so on, and that's, you know, really kind of bread and butter facility that keeps keeps the research moving. And, you know, all these other supportive functions, very kind of operational, hands on, but but really driven by helping the researchers crack on and do some do some great research while we take care of some of the the other tasks. But microscopy is still part, I'm pleased to say.
Peter O'Toole:So are you still leading the microscopy side?
Graham Wright:I am. So it's it's about to be transferred actually to another institute, but I'll still remain involved and, on the steering committee and and helping to advise and consult Xiaozhiao Ma who now runs that facility at an operational level, together with with with the colleagues there. So I'll I'll be a little bit further from it, going forward, but I still teach on the courses, and, take part in some of the initiatives we run. We've got a a national, national level partnership, between the major microscopy facilities in Singapore, which is called Singoscope, and that brings together this community. And that I'll still be very actively involved in in that sort of coordination as well.
Graham Wright:So this is interesting.
Peter O'Toole:I see your role. It it it's what's been really good to hear is how your your career has been developed and how Astar have helped you develop your career as well.
Graham Wright:Absolutely. Yeah.
Peter O'Toole:So it's not for everyone, but you've been able to progress. I presume these are upward steps.
Graham Wright:Yep. That makes sense. Absolutely.
Peter O'Toole:But now you're kind of leaving the hands on, leaving the need for technical expertise to an extent Yeah. Because you now have others coming in. So does that mean the conferences you go to are going to change? So instead of being the as you mentioned earlier, microcytes and MMCs, which is in your hometown of Manchester now.
Graham Wright:Yes. I know. No, no, no.
Peter O'Toole:Your your LMEs, your things like that. Are you going to have and form are you going to have to leave those behind and start going to the ABRF or the CTLS called technologies for life sciences or the even in the UK, the technical specialist network. You can are you are you gonna invite migrate to those now and prioritize those brothers?
Graham Wright:I it's been happening, I guess, again, with hindsight. I I have, kind of embraced those opportunities. I haven't been to ABRS yet, but I have been to CTLS meetings,
Peter O'Toole:in the past.
Graham Wright:I think the last one I went to was in Ghent, which was a a great meeting. But, the I was running up and up until now, I've been running that in parallel with attending microscopy meetings and and these more kind of facilities or core facility orientated meetings. The and I've added on to that the the global bioimaging meetings which they call the exchange of experience, which has been a, fantastic community to get involved in. Thanks to, yeah. Thank you very much.
Peter O'Toole:Global one of the global bioging meetings, which would in Singapore itself, wasn't it, in this case? It was
Graham Wright:in Singapore. Yeah. So so the Singerscope, partnership that I referred to earlier, which was a kind of, Singapore wide, coordination of all the different, light microscopy capabilities, gave rise to me getting involved in in global bioimaging, and it was by the director of IMB that I referred to earlier was was Birgit Lane, at the time, and she was instrumental in introducing me to John Erickson, who's in the center right of that photograph, who was heavily involved with Euro Bio Imaging, was was was had helped develop this global bio bio bioimaging initiative together with, Jan and Ellenberg and and Anja and others that were involved in the early days of Euro BioMFG. And, through Synoscope, we got tuned into this. I went to a few of their meetings, and then we were asked whether we'd be interested to host the meeting in Singapore, which gave rise to the one on screen.
Graham Wright:And that they're very different conversations. It's all around, bioimaging of some sort, whether it's, LM electron microscopy or or the more kind of clinical preclinical methodologies. But it brings together this community who who many of whom are running and hands on with microscopy, but also there's the facilities angle. There's the policy and funding angle. There's a lot lot of different interest in that group, and they've proven to be really great meetings.
Graham Wright:Lots of good people there on the picture that have have changed. Is it quite different conversation as well to we have at some of the others. A bit a bit like the the satellite meetings we see at LME, the core facilities satellite meetings. It's similar conversations amongst these groups as well.
Peter O'Toole:And, obviously, we've got the LM facilities meetings, which are early January, so still fit in with trip home as well.
Graham Wright:Yeah. Yeah. Well, and and, I certainly advocate those to to colleagues and so on. And I know some of my colleagues have been to join them in there. That community is is brilliant.
Graham Wright:Right? Is is again sharing experience of running a running a facility. We will have the same problems in or same challenges in in different kind of ways, but but I'm a great advocate of sharing that. And visiting each other's facilities is always an extremely useful thing to do to to get insights in how it's run, how they approach different, sorry, the same problems in different ways. These are things extremely valuable.
Peter O'Toole:I and I think what's interesting as well is the problems so so you'll know, I guess, not just microscopy. You've got other core facilities by presumably in genomics, in mass spectrometry and other technologies out there. And even though they meet like global bioimaging, it's imaging, it's microscopy, it's for the life sciences. But I presume that the discussions you have actually are completely relatable. It's just the name microscope can be changed for genomics.
Peter O'Toole:The name of genomics can be changed from aspect. You know, you hear sometimes electron microscopy say how they're cool is so different to light microscopy cool. Actually, I don't think they are. There's a different bias, a different balance of instruments and staff ratios and time and demands. But ultimately, the fundamentals, the basics are the same.
Peter O'Toole:Those meetings are still super useful for no matter what your technology biases. Yeah.
Graham Wright:You can it's very translatable. I I totally agree with that. I think, we we see it is very, very kind of what applies here can apply there. I think what we see in this oversight, or coordination role that we have is that they the techniques are obviously very different. The way samples are prepared and processed and so on can be very different.
Graham Wright:We also have 2 sort of major different modes of operation. Some that are training followed by self use of the instruments or your supported self use as it may be, but, you know they'll teach it to a user. It can be taught in a in a matter of hours or a couple of days, different sessions and so on, a way that it can you can get on and use the instrument at least at a certain level of proficiency. And that's perhaps typical of, microscopy, and and flow cytometry to some degree, I think. And then we have other facilities or platforms that are much more kind of service or collaboratively oriented that they'll it's not a case of we'll teach you how to use it and on you go.
Graham Wright:It's it's very much we'll we'll either do it for you or or perhaps with you, better in in many cases, and really spend the time together trying to understand, is it this we need to do? Is it this we need to do? Or or helping alleviate the the the kind of huge hurdle technological hurdle is to get get running on those instruments, effectively. So coordinating that, it obviously is this than different challenges that come with it, but but the, I think appreciating that and appreciating it. Okay.
Graham Wright:But the expectations of this will be quite different to to another facility is important and somewhere we're trying to develop at the minute. And this is built off ideas coming out of ABRF and and other publications from from those sort of groups, particularly Phil Hochberger, in Northwestern. We've had a lot of conversation with him and and Ian Smith who used to be at Monash University in Australia, they is how to fairly kind of assess these platforms in terms of their performance or at least set set kind of expectations. And it's what we've come to realize, and it's obviously quite clear, is that they're not all working to the same aims. Right?
Graham Wright:They they all work in different models. They they may, you know, publish a lot of papers as coauthors versus they may earn a lot of revenue versus they may have a hugely wide user base that they can share their instruments with or or maybe a a narrow one. They're all very different in what we can see and expect from that. So we try and take a very kind of fair view and and and measure them on lots of different attributes and then then sort of judge what what is the most appropriate targets or or aims for for for that technology versus that technology is where we're sort of working at the minute.
Peter O'Toole:It's it's a I I you may not want to answer this. What's the most difficult technology of the core facility to which one doesn't have the same income compared to the others, doesn't have the same of co authorship, so the collaborative side. And yet it's still fundamentally vital, but But for whatever reason, which one's the most challenging?
Graham Wright:Yeah. I probably shouldn't answer that, should I? That's a good question. I and they've all got their own, you know Strengths? Strengths and and, challenges, let's say, or opportunities.
Graham Wright:I don't think there's one that stands out as the hardest one or the most difficult one. I I mean, looking back, electron microscopy is is phenomenally expensive, to run, and and, that that's one factor, of course, that, you know, keeping up with equipment in that space is very difficult. I think I think, if we'd say take a different you know, maybe a different extreme is that we have have a histopathology facility, which is called the advanced molecular pathology laboratory. And they they they can do much kinda higher throughput, or or or much larger amount of samples, and and therefore can, you know, the the metrics are very different. Same same in even within microscopy.
Graham Wright:Right? We have some systems that require a lot of dedication to sit down and use and really understand things like live cell imaging or the or more extreme, the super resolution, techniques. And then we also have a slide scanner, which which sits there and just runs automatically the entire time. And if we drill down to the kind of if you look to the financial metrics, the productivity of that versus that is very different just because the nature of the instruments are very different.
Peter O'Toole:No. I I don't I'm not gonna say which one I it's not the most challenging. Not the most challenging to manage. Just their metrics are always no matter what metric you use, their metrics will be lower than whoever's tapped. They never top any of those metric pilots.
Peter O'Toole:And that's not the lab. It's just the science.
Graham Wright:Technology. Yeah. And the user base. The user base
Peter O'Toole:in some place will be very different. And so that change. We still have to have it. It's still an under underpinned vital asset. So it doesn't mean the lab's not successful.
Peter O'Toole:Just by any metric, it's never gonna be the best.
Graham Wright:Yeah. That that's why we developed this sort of collective of metrics, rather than 1. Right? Because if you look at 1, then it's flawed to do so because they may be producing very different expectations, learn different, you know, things across different metrics very differently. And it's a sort of, you know, balanced scorecard type approach.
Graham Wright:We we're trying to build it now into dashboards so that the the platforms and it's really to help the platforms. The platforms can put this together and help justify, their resistance, their funding, their support that they get to the the powers that be, and and really show the value and the impact and the the underlying sort of value they're bringing to the organization through through that work, which is I mean, we're preaching to the converted a little bit here, but it's, of course, extremely high and extremely valuable.
Peter O'Toole:Mhmm. Okay. Switch it for a minute because I know we're getting quite deep into our
Graham Wright:I think we
Peter O'Toole:can carry this on at another point. There were some quick fire questions. You're an early bird or night owl?
Graham Wright:Early bird.
Peter O'Toole:It's got to be if you're going out exercising early as well. Yep. Yep. PC or Mac?
Graham Wright:Oh, Mac. My choice, but I'm on a PC now.
Peter O'Toole:So McDonald's or Burger King? Oh,
Graham Wright:probably McDonald's, I think.
Peter O'Toole:Okay. Coffee or tea?
Graham Wright:Tea. Yorkshire tea.
Peter O'Toole:Well, I I I I've heard we said that earlier That's to be done doing that.
Graham Wright:That's a so if if if my family members come and visit me, they're not allowed in the house unless they brought a box box of your Yorkshire tea with them.
Peter O'Toole:Beer or wine?
Graham Wright:Beer. Chocolate or cheese?
Peter O'Toole:Oh, cheese. Oh, cool. You're nice and decisive. This is good. Is there any food you don't like?
Graham Wright:No. Not much. I think when I I suppose if you spoke to my mom, she'd probably say when I was younger, I was quite fussy, but now I'm I'm game for trying everything. And I think living here, in this really kind of melting pot of all these different cultures and and this part of the world. Right?
Graham Wright:There's some incredible food options to explore. So I'll I'll try it. I'm I'm on it. Say I love it all, but I'll give it a go.
Peter O'Toole:Okay. It's it's interesting question from my recent report. How often do you eat at home? How often do you eat out?
Graham Wright:Probably 2 phases of life here. Pre kids was eating out a lot more than eating at home. I think post post kids, we eat at home a lot more. My my wife, Charlie, loves to cook. So she, you know, she she, by choice, would probably eat at home and prepare something delicious That's that's always the case.
Graham Wright:Make sure I say that.
Peter O'Toole:Tell you what, the culture in Singapore is far more an 18 Yeah.
Graham Wright:And, actually, your it's a good point. You the the socializing here is often done over food, whereas, back back in the UK, it was perhaps more kinda go for a pint or, you know, go for a drink. Here, a lot of the socializing is done done over food, perhaps less of a kind of drinking drinking culture in that sense, but but also the food is is a real kinda center point culturally here. So some some of Singapore is very proud of and does very well for sure. And you have these these, food courts or hawker centers, which are kinda communally shared tables, but with all those food stalls around the outside.
Graham Wright:So you can kinda pick and choose your favorites from that, which is good good ways to socialize.
Peter O'Toole:And what's your favorite food? Do you have a top
Graham Wright:food? That's a good one. I I, I suppose so there's a place here where you can go for satay, so, chicken satay, etcetera. And it's a it's a I think it used to be a Glaswegian market that was shipped over to Singapore way way back and rebuilt here called Lau Pa Sat. And every night, they close off one street next to Lau Pa Sat, and then they put out all these barbecues, and they start cooking the satay.
Graham Wright:And it's it's a great atmosphere. You're surrounded by all the skyscrapers of the CBD, in Singapore. And, but then there's this kind of, you know, lo fi barbecue going on with great satay. So that's always a a great place to bring visitors and and family love it. I think family favorite is if we said what what what do we wanna go for, I think dumplings, would be pretty high up on the agenda, at home.
Graham Wright:For me, I love a good curry as well, and that's always a delicious thing to do.
Peter O'Toole:Do you cook yourself?
Graham Wright:Bad badly and rarely, I think, is probably fair. I think, like, the, my wife is much better better at that, so I don't do it very often.
Peter O'Toole:Does she work over there?
Graham Wright:She she does. Yeah. Yeah. She's a she's a teacher now. When we first moved there, she was in, medical communications and publications, but she switched a few years back to become a teacher.
Graham Wright:She retrained in the PGCEI and is our teacher in the international school, one of the international schools where where the kids also attend, and is loving. She's she's a scientist by background. That's when we met back in Edinburgh and teaches biology and science to secondary school students. So the opportunities over there
Peter O'Toole:have been really quite good, haven't they?
Graham Wright:Yeah. It's, it's been it's been a good run. And and I think the this like I say, the ability to kind of retrain, I suppose I did that to some degree with studying on top of top of my biological background. I went and did an MBA as well by distance learning, and I think that that has helped also breed breed some opportunities or or helped change direction slightly.
Peter O'Toole:So, Humphrey, I'll I'll come back to the quick five. So I was gonna ask about the MBA side. How much time did that require outside of the day job?
Graham Wright:Well, a lot. So so I did it, I did it at Warwick, University in the UK, by distance learning, and this was pre pre COVID. So it was done done by distance because I sort of selected it based on the, you know, the reputation of the business school being online and then I could be a be a move around and do it if the need arose. And it was a 3 a 3 year course on top of work full time. And it was a lot of commitments, a lot of late nights both to attend live live lectures as well, and it worked also to cover the material.
Graham Wright:It was a lot of work a lot of work. And we're, ridiculously, Otto, our youngest, was born in amongst all that. So there was some very late nights for that reason as well, which was was probably a bit of a challenge. That was why did you feel you needed it? As we've described, I'd I'd I'd done, running a I've been running a facility for a long time and kinda grown it to a certain point from a from a my own seniority perspective as well as how it was organized and ran.
Graham Wright:And I wanted and I think probably a lot of facility managers would agree it's a bit like running a small business, in a sense that you're, you know, you're in charge of it as a domain, and you've got incomes, outgoings, cost balance, getting funding, etcetera. And some of that I'd I'd sort of highlighted that I was interested in that that side of it, as well as I wanted to have perhaps a formal education and experience in how to do it properly or how to do elements of kind of business administration properly, and to open opportunities to where I could take it next. So chose to do it, and it was great. Really sort of enjoyable. I learned a lot, but it was hard work, both for being out of my comfort zone, going back to studying many, many, many years after doing it previously, and a completely new topic.
Graham Wright:Right? You know, being a biologist and scientist entirely by background. It was suddenly doing marketing and doing accountancy, which strangely I enjoyed quite a lot. And all these other disciplines, strategic thinking. But but a lot of it has been very useful, in running a facility, but also taking taking the job to where I've gone now, which as we discussed is much more kind of administrative and managerial.
Peter O'Toole:And did you pay for that personally? It was
Graham Wright:yeah. The and it's expensive. I I got a I think, some support or a scholarship from from Warwick, because they actively encouraged, applicants from sort of varied and different disciplines or different backgrounds. So that helped a bit, but, yeah, I was, funded personally. And but because of this requirement to have this, these diverse backgrounds or the desire to have these diverse backgrounds, the cohort of students was a fascinating, bunch of people.
Graham Wright:And they all I think you all had to have 5 years plus experience of managing something, or some people. And that brought a real wealth of experience to the to the conversations, not not, you know, teamwork and group group work as well.
Peter O'Toole:I presume you had to get permission from ASTAR to take this on?
Graham Wright:I remember at the time, yes, I sought permission from my supervising, kinda network, and and they were very supportive, in doing it in sort of a personal development angle. I don't think and I hope it didn't impinge too much on my day job. I I I think I still get that get that going well, but and then I used annual leave and so on to go and visit the course. The course required you every semester to go back and do a week in person, which was obviously very valuable. I think I used personal leave for for for all of those trips.
Peter O'Toole:And more of expense.
Graham Wright:Yes. Also true. I I always tag on a visit home to to make sure. So I said hello to everybody.
Peter O'Toole:Toto. Okay. I lived
Graham Wright:down to Coventry. That was part of the problem.
Peter O'Toole:It's kind of in the middle of both of them, isn't it? In laws and blue. But again, it's good that Astar being supportive. And
Graham Wright:obviously, you
Peter O'Toole:need that. Yeah. You know, that that rewards because now you're in a different position where that those skills and expertise are even more useful.
Graham Wright:Yeah. Astar have been fantastic as as a as a supporting entity and giving me opportunities, I think, shaped by some of the people that I've worked closely with, as well as the, you know, organizationally open to to me pursuing these things or fulfilling quite different positions to to, you know, my background. And, yeah. So I I would say we've been here for such a long time. It's clear clearly something's going going well.
Graham Wright:Right?
Peter O'Toole:You, can we see yourself coming back to the UK?
Graham Wright:Yeah. That's a that's a question we get asked now. You know, we've always said yes at some point, and we've never clearly never pulled the trigger on that one. Yeah. And, we don't have a plan.
Graham Wright:Right? We we always we always think about it and talk about it, but we haven't got anything set in stone. I guess with the kids growing up and and, you know, families getting older and so on, at some point, it'll become a perhaps more real pressure. But, for the time being, we're very happy.
Peter O'Toole:Enjoy it while you're there. Back to the quick
Graham Wright:part of it.
Peter O'Toole:TV or book?
Graham Wright:Oh, TV. I'm quite bad at picking up a book and reading it, although I should be better.
Peter O'Toole:Thank you. Do you have a secret TV VICE trash TV that you watch?
Graham Wright:No. Not so much on TV. I'm I I think I'm drawn into, you know, videos online. They're they're a complete waste of time, but but, you know, made me laugh quite a lot. So that's probably my advice rather than than TV per se.
Graham Wright:We we try and stay tuned into kind of British culture a little bit in the TV we watch, I guess. Still watch Have I Got News For You and We Can Get It and these sort of things.
Peter O'Toole:And children's TV, I presume. Some children's TV.
Graham Wright:Yep. Yeah. Although, you know, the Internet and streaming services have changed how that's watched significantly as well. We have a much better access to things than when we were first here. Yeah.
Graham Wright:Still watch still watch the odd Man City game and football game as well.
Peter O'Toole:I was gonna ask you, what's your football team? So Man City, I think.
Graham Wright:Yeah. Which which, you know, 30 plus years ago when I chose to to support them, it was, a decision based on the fact my brother my brother was a United fan, so I thought I'll go the other way. But, it was a terrible choice for a while, but it's come good finally.
Peter O'Toole:Don't go. I told him I'm a Man U fan.
Graham Wright:Well, there you go. There's many Man U fans around there.
Peter O'Toole:We don't get I I started in the early eighties, late seventies, early eighties, and there wasn't much success around then either.
Graham Wright:No. Well, I so I had to tolerate my brother for for a long, long time under Ferguson's, years. It was, like, late eighties, nineties of, when they were phenomenally, of course, but it's it's the tables have turned, I'm glad to say. Yeah.
Peter O'Toole:Could be turning back again. I like to leave you always an optimist. What's your favorite what's your favorite film?
Graham Wright:Woah. I love the Indiana Jones films, so I could watch them infinitely, I think. So probably one of them. I kinda wish one. Latest one.
Peter O'Toole:You must have seen the latest one.
Graham Wright:Yeah. The newer ones aren't as good, are they? The, the old ones like Temple of Doom, etcetera is, classics.
Peter O'Toole:Okay. Favorite Christmas film?
Graham Wright:I don't that's a good question.
Peter O'Toole:Do you have fun to sit down with the family and watch each year?
Graham Wright:Yeah. So the yeah. I don't know if we've got a a solid favorite. I always remember Santa Claus the movie with, probably, more and stuff like that. That was a classic growing up.
Graham Wright:Now we there there's a lot, that we watch now. Not sure if we have a family favorite, actually. I think we've sort of churn through them all.
Peter O'Toole:Let's see as they get older, whether it becomes one steady. Star Trek or Star Wars?
Graham Wright:Star Wars. Yeah. I know it was never a Trekkie. It never got my attention, strangely. And I know people on this podcast have said otherwise, but, yeah, I never captured my attention.
Peter O'Toole:It it it's pretty, it's pretty 5050.
Graham Wright:Oh, is it? Okay. Fair enough.
Peter O'Toole:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And Star Wars, Star Trek is pretty close. What's your favorite color?
Graham Wright:I always say green. And when I think of it, I'm thinking of British racing green, when I when I when I say it as well.
Peter O'Toole:See so why don't you go floristy?
Graham Wright:Yes. Could've said that.
Peter O'Toole:It's a bit bright, though, isn't it? British racing green. I haven't heard of a fluorescent dye called British racing green.
Graham Wright:Quite like yellow as well, but that's probably cycling related these days. Don't get to wear it ever.
Peter O'Toole:Do you have any regrets at work? Oh,
Graham Wright:no. I don't think so. I think in preparation for this talking to you today, I thought about that and thought about, you know, what I've enjoyed and not enjoyed. I think I've enjoyed it all. I really really have loved my job at many different times and continue to do so, and and have hence continued it and pursued pursued my interest.
Graham Wright:And and, yeah, I don't I don't think I have regrets on it. I think, it's still still good.
Peter O'Toole:And it has you sent me a picture and you sent me a few things. And one was a montage of lots and lots of people in the community, not just Global Biomagene, but all around. And is that a TEDx talk as well?
Graham Wright:Yeah. Yeah. 1 of the schools here hosted that. It was a good, exciting opportunity. So I I yeah.
Graham Wright:This slide sums up, I suppose, the teams that I've worked with or the outreach and, educational and training events we've done as a as a team. And lots of diverse ones that right above your head is we did an art exhibition using sort of scientific images that we've taken on the microscopes, an art gallery here in Singapore, giving talks and lectures at different events, whether it's been at sort of the science center or in kind of more informal settings or these, you know, like science cafes and so on. And then, some other people like like Sarah, the over your right shoulder, that's hosting a school visit that came and and looked around the facility. We do quite a lot of this as as much as we can kind of outreach initiatives as well as the sort of formal courses like top left and, and so on. So, yeah, it's a it's a it's a it's a kind of drive that we do that, but but it's always very enjoyable to interact with people about about what we do.
Graham Wright:We must spread the spread the word.
Peter O'Toole:I should say thank you as well. Because like to Sarah have been obviously to your con different courses as well. So that's quite nice to read that point.
Graham Wright:Yeah. We often we've sent people to your the the light microscopy summer school just to I think when when Sarah was new and she joined us, she really to get that kind of grounding and education, which starts it for many of us. Right? I think the attending a course, for me, it was years ago, Nick arranged, Peter Evinert from the RMS to come to Edinburgh and to teach, one of his microscopy courses, which I was looking to attend, I think, as as an undergrad or maybe a summer internship or something. And, that I think these these courses are are going, you know, going to get an education are phenomenal for that.
Graham Wright:I think it's also good. To get this final.
Peter O'Toole:Yeah. Not not just for learning the skills, but learning how to teach as well.
Graham Wright:Yep. And get the passion for the subject. Right? Like everyone that teaches on these courses are they love it. Right?
Graham Wright:And they they infuse about it and they pass that on to the to the students, for sure.
Peter O'Toole:And, obviously, you you've named quite a few of the people in here. So you also sent a picture of, I just thought I'd put it on just quickly. Lots of the people who you work with over time, the teams that you're you're working with.
Graham Wright:Yeah. I've been really lucky to have some fantastic colleagues captured in many of these pictures. That I've been fun to work with. Say again?
Peter O'Toole:I love the 3 d glasses.
Graham Wright:Yes. We attended a seminar, and someone gave out 3 d glasses to everyone in the audience to watch their 3 d movies, which I thought was a a good good delivery method. But, yes, some superb colleagues there that that have been part of my team formally or have been associated or linked to us, and it makes it enjoyable, makes it fun, and there have been phenomenal people doing their their job, supporting the microscopy, within Astar and and beyond.
Peter O'Toole:So we are nearly up to the hour. I've got a couple of questions I really want to ask you. Have you had when has been the most challenging time in your career?
Graham Wright:That's a good question. Probably goes back like, I can't think of a challenging time in terms of, like, the, you know, the the workload or well, maybe the workload, but the, you know, anything specific. I think the the combination of doing the MBA while doing a full time job whilst having a baby was probably the most challenging into because of physical and and exhaustion levels. But I as I said, I really enjoy what I do and have have done. I've been very, very lucky in that regard.
Graham Wright:But so I haven't had any real kind of, oh, that was a really tough tough period of time. I've I've sort of generally, had quite a good time doing it.
Peter O'Toole:If you could do any job for a day, not in Science Lab, what job would you fancy trying? Yeah. You look at only different jobs out there in the world. Is there anyone you think, oh, I really wish I could just sample it for a day or a week just to get to know what it's like?
Graham Wright:I reckon being being a cameraman for, the latest David Attenborough documentary, whatever that may be, would be superb or or probably one of the underwater ones by by choice on Blue Planet or something. So I I when we were first here, we did a lot of diving, and there's some phenomenal places to scuba dive around this part of the world. But, yeah, taking it to that level would be incredible. I think that'd be that'd be a fun fun few days out.
Peter O'Toole:That's different one to others. I've had that's quite yeah. Cool job to to. What's your favorite conference?
Graham Wright:Oh, good one. I think ELMI is is a fantastic conference, the European Light Microscopy Initiative, both for the science, for the access to the instrumentation, for the for the core facilities, satellite day. There's a lot to be said for it and the commute obviously, the community that that attends these meetings. I used to go quite religiously, like, annually to make a trip over to Europe to do to attend, and and it was, quite less so now, but we we've discussed that a little bit. So that's that to me, that's always been a great meeting, and I would recommend all kinda, like, microscopists do so even if their place is limited as soon as we talked about earlier.
Graham Wright:The the other one is the the the GBI, the Global Biomaging ones, the EOE. Again, similarly for the the network is is incredible. And it and also I've been involved with it not since the start, but for long enough to see it really grow from strength to strength as these these more countries have been added. Whole new regions of the world have kinda come into that community. And I've I've been lucky to lead one of the work groups on career paths in that and that, again, coordinating and working with this, great bunch of bunch of people has been superb.
Peter O'Toole:And that's nearly got a publication, has it not?
Graham Wright:I hope hopefully, fingers crossed. It should be it should be soon. And so we we published what we call the white paper kinda international recommendation, which is already available, which is a very long form of the paper. But, yeah, we've we've got it under review in the minute with, the Journal of Microscopy. So we keep keep our fingers crossed.
Graham Wright:That's all good. Yep.
Peter O'Toole:First comments back are promising.
Graham Wright:That's Yeah. Yeah. It's looking looking good.
Peter O'Toole:As you'll see, by the time this goes live, who knows? It could actually be impressed, which would be kinda cool. And one final question. In science, is there anything you would change in the way that science works or within science?
Graham Wright:I've never thought about that. What would I change? I think I think the the the best bits or the most enjoyable bits of science science to to see and do or be involved with is is when when collaborations are really kind of productive. Right? That you can see that 2 or more people have come around the table and and, both got ideas and are stimulating and bouncing off each other.
Graham Wright:So and and as actually, as a as a core facility, you can sometimes facilitate that and introduce people and kinda make these things happen. That that is always a a real pleasure and a joy to watch. So if there was more of that, not that there is a lack of collaboration in science, but if there was more of that, that would be great to see. And and I suppose the interdisciplinary side of it, as as I've been involved in at times in in in my own work is is really good as well when you can really put 2 people who almost speak a different language scientifically together, and yet they can be, you know, really, really bound thrive off one another. I think that that's, has not really changed, is it?
Graham Wright:Sorry, Pete. But it's it's something very No.
Peter O'Toole:No. No. No. It is because I guess what you're saying is more collaboration, less competition. Competition is healthy, but as scientists, we're competing against time And we don't need to compete against each other.
Peter O'Toole:There's always that urgency to get results out. So the competition is internal, to be competing, repeating, and, yeah, collaborating.
Graham Wright:Yeah. I guess it wasn't I wasn't coming from that angle necessarily about the the expense of competition, but but just I think I think that's where the magic happens a little bit sometimes when when different disciplines come together or different, even research groups. Right? There can be really some valuable things in there. And I think with microscopy, you see that whether it's the physicists or the bioinformaticians or the, you know, the, the data scientists that you you get this marrying of capabilities is is is very good.
Peter O'Toole:So on that note, Graham, I should say thank you. And thank you for everyone who's watched or listened. Please subscribe. You know what? I don't think anyone has name dropped so many previous guests.
Peter O'Toole:I I kept telling you, we had Stefan, we had Timo, we had Kota, We had Jon Erickson. We had Jan Enenberg, and Keppler. And I probably missed 1 or 2 others that you've name dropped, but there's loads to catch up on the series. Graham, you've also been so easy to talk to. You kind of talked
Graham Wright:your way through it.
Peter O'Toole:It's just been really great. And I hope for those listening, you understand a different career track and some of the nuances and the potential to develop a career. Add to that, and I think you've you've I've I got lucky at your you've seen obviously got very lucky at Astar and a very supportive community within that as well. So, Graham, thank you very much.
Graham Wright:Thank you very much. It's been an absolute pleasure. Thanks.
Intro/Outro:Thank you for listening to The Microscopists, a Bite Size Bio podcast sponsored by Zeiss Microscopy. To view all audio and video recordings from this series, please visit bitesizebio.comforward/v dashmicroscopists.
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