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Peter O'Toole: hi welcome to this episode of the by cross caprice on pto to university of New York and today i'm joined by Christian ogling from university of Ghana Christian, how are you today.

Christian Eggeling: i'm fine i'm fine i'm happy i'm.

Christian Eggeling: Sure, with you in this this nice formatting i've seen couple of this before and i'm glad that i'm part of this, as well as.

Peter O'Toole: Well, thanks for finding the time I know it's been a crazy time for you and that's balancing teaching with research and all the other commitments that.

Christian Eggeling: color exactly and that all in these times when I changed.

Christian Eggeling: from Oxford back to to Germany and mainly due to private reasons, but you know it's a good environment, as we know, for my cross goodness.

Christian Eggeling: And they are the university and at the lightness Institute and the longer students this Platonic technologies, I mean I know it's there as well, by 99 so it's a good microscopy environment, but also good environment to do.

Christian Eggeling: Biology because there are a lot of good clinics good biomedicine and stuff like this, but I still had my group, so I switched to Dana.

Christian Eggeling: As usual laps on already know, so I kept all my people and oxford's my team was so good and Oxford and they just kept on running.

Christian Eggeling: And then, as it goes, I mean we all know, corona cane, and then it was impossible I haven't been in Oxford for two years.

Christian Eggeling: So the last time I was there was yeah begin march 2020 years and after that traveling was impossible main into them, the next time I was there was in.

Christian Eggeling: March this year March this year, the first time, and I even didn't fly we kept picked up a microscope so talk to my guys, who have been actually with me and Oxford and know work with me Nina.

Christian Eggeling: let's get a van drive to Holland nitrate and night very went over to Oxford had a couple of Nice days and also met all the old people's got in the microscope I had some meetings with with with people there to organize things like we drove back now.

Christian Eggeling: Fantastic trip, I really love that so and I enjoyed it as well, and all the people that are still left and then Oxford and kind of this was for me a farewell and Oxford, because all the old people came together and so on, and a lot of people, as you know, I mean.

Christian Eggeling: flux groups is disassemble and they are now everywhere in the world, and so on, today I talked to one of my postdocs he's now in his talk, he is now in Louisiana I just talked to him earlier this day adage my great postdoc in North summit is no in in.

Christian Eggeling: In code is going, Stockholm and one of the postdocs Marco Fisher he's now leading the biggest facility in in Oxford and pushing his own signs.

Peter O'Toole: As I taste good day you're.

Peter O'Toole: going out there Kristen.

Christian Eggeling: And now we're building out new stuff here but building up a new lap and corona times I don't advise anybody to do that because it's difficult we just were about that the laps get going and then.

Christian Eggeling: Everything closes down and you can't reach anybody, and you can't proceed anything and the first, of course, the protein that the first weeks.

Peter O'Toole: yeah, how is the team collegiality, as in because you're assembling a new team, so you can have new PhDs new post OPS, how would they bonded because.

Peter O'Toole: Because of coronavirus detached leave I certainly found people who are coming over corona they don't have the same network saying friendships the same feel for the rest of the team very.

Christian Eggeling: Very difficult.

Christian Eggeling: And I have to say that I mean there were a couple of people that joined my lap mid February mid February, we have the first lockdown in Germany and.

Christian Eggeling: began March or something like this it was difficult and this and let's be honest, you are sometimes more of psychologists, then in a scientist in these these areas because.

Christian Eggeling: I don't blame and I think we can all say that from ourselves that we didn't did not have bad times during these two years of corona because science as we used to that it.

Christian Eggeling: wasn't going on, and we know all know, and I think that is what we realized on it's a lot of our communication isn't and and.

Christian Eggeling: That was completely that course and they were also exciting times trying to get the teaching going on online and and it was exciting as well, but you realized after a while something's missing so.

Peter O'Toole: good to see you say it was yeah it's difficult times and some exciting times, but I seem to recall correct me if i'm wrong when you worry, not to it, you are still commuting back to Germany on a frequent basis how frequently, are you going back to Germany.

Christian Eggeling: i'm not a good climate person back then this year's every weekend.

Peter O'Toole: every weekend and that's a family, I presume wife children.

Christian Eggeling: Two children, I have two children and they were pretty young at the beginning.

Christian Eggeling: When we plan to move all down my one daughter was was pretty sick back then she didn't get along at all, and so they really decided for them to stay in German that was it and I already said yes and and it's so exciting and and for me.

Christian Eggeling: doing something and Oxford building up the microscopy then was such a huge opportunity, and then we agreed okay let's let's try to get this done yeah and there was doable and.

Christian Eggeling: And we even thought you know why now my daughter developed she got better, and then we thought moving them to Oxford, then we We said we are let's let's wait for the brexit vote yeah.

Christian Eggeling: i'm and it's not the reason yeah it's not the reason why I moved to Germany, but I always saying it did not help let's say like this and then I got the good offer, and you know and then.

Christian Eggeling: With the brexit we just said.

Christian Eggeling: yeah it's very unfortunate, I mean science is so much.

Christian Eggeling: Connecting and so on, and I had such a great time excellent and all the people there, so international but also all the English people I love them and that's why I also wanted to do this in England, because my my brother.

Christian Eggeling: He did his PhD at imperial and we visited him so often and he had such a great time there and we had such a great time with him there and and unfortunately my brother died later on.

Christian Eggeling: And it was my twin brother and that's also one reason, when I got this offer from Watson somehow I felt and it wasn't a biomedical environment where we also I could help with my imaging cancer research and so on, I had a good motivation to do them.

Peter O'Toole: Now I said.

Peter O'Toole: Before say.

Peter O'Toole: Well, what was your degree and let's start way back what was your first degree in.

Christian Eggeling: physics, I studied physics, I studied physics in Hamburg mo because it's the city of of.

Christian Eggeling: particle physics everything yeah because they have this big accelerator there the DC and so on.

Christian Eggeling: But then I realized oh man, even in the I think already in the third semester, they started to give lectures, especially lectures on particle physics and I just thought.

Christian Eggeling: I don't want to go that deep into that and then I went to get in and getting it was more broad there's all kinds of biophysics was there already.

Christian Eggeling: Physical chemistry and and then I stayed in gutting and I did my my diploma like then they are master and and a State as a PhD there as well, because I remember this day.

Christian Eggeling: I was looking for deployment and I was kind of specialized in a little bit also on physical chemistry fluorescents and stuff like this.

Peter O'Toole: yeah.

Christian Eggeling: I was looking for people and then somebody said it go up to this is Max Planck institute there somebody very new yeah.

Christian Eggeling: he's definitely looking for somebody that was close to it, I don't know if you look close island community knows him, I mean.

Christian Eggeling: and Klaus welcome me he liked me and that's why I started my diploma with cloud side and, at the beginning, he wanted to do something completely different.

Christian Eggeling: We wanted to investigate how DNA basis changed the floor, since lifetime of different diets yeah, and so we can use it as it was back to the idea of using.

Christian Eggeling: Individual profiles for identifying the DNA basis for sequencing which in principle has been proceeded they run by some companies yeah and but then he realized all its to single molecule stuff there's so much cool stuff going on and I realized as a student I could.

Christian Eggeling: sing the molecules looking at an individual molecules on a microscope never, never ever.

Christian Eggeling: And I remember, we went to conferences in back then, the big single molecule guys were these these guys from alamo there.

Christian Eggeling: from the US to Keller and stuff like this, and he he in one of his his first early reviews, I read this thing it's not a problem to see a single molecule with the rest rosen's it's just important to.

Christian Eggeling: reject the the background now just like a star, we can see if everything is Doc yeah so this way if we go into nature.

Christian Eggeling: sky is just wonderful, but if we go into his big city, we don't see anything yeah and that's exactly like this, and I still remember this sentence from the great guy at all, it was an exciting time.

Christian Eggeling: And I I realized okay on the single monitor techniques like fluorescence correlation spectroscopy and even doing my my diploma time I monster is Stefan hell already sent me six weeks to Stockholm to work with.

Christian Eggeling: With Nicola on fcs yeah it was was the big fcs lap in Europe.

Christian Eggeling: And, and then I met great people like jaco didn't greener back then big fcs guy.

Christian Eggeling: Who who just finished his PhD and and there were other people like little Nazis, since now in back in Estonia.

Christian Eggeling: i've never seen such an experimental guy unbelievable very, very good I learned so much, and I remember, they of course sent me there in November and December going to Stockholm in November and December is Doc I made a joke now you blink your eyes and you miss bright.

Christian Eggeling: So, but it was good, I learned a lot, I had a great time I learned fcs and look at me now, I would say, one of my big topics and still fcs and to combine it in different ways and drive it in different ways, and so on, so.

Christian Eggeling: that's why I have to think be thankful a lot with with with close either back then I learned a lot of things from and that's why I decided to stay with him, I did my PhD with him.

Christian Eggeling: Lots of single molecule stuff we did a lot of photo beating studies, nobody nobody everybody is interested in photo bleaching but nobody wants to do these studies and I just had had a discussion this morning because we again have a small project, when we look on photo bleaching of times.

Christian Eggeling: I don't know what about this photo blowing stuff yeah.

Christian Eggeling: yeah but a photo photo bleaching is going through doing that's what we do as humans.

Peter O'Toole: pitching after this we'll go into more detail on that so called some questions on it.

Okay.

Peter O'Toole: i'll take it out of this bit and moving it through so you mentioned step in hell now as well, so you spend time with Stefan also.

Christian Eggeling: what's up.

Peter O'Toole: Everyone know Stefan, what do you like to work with.

Christian Eggeling: yeah but we push maybe I tell a little bit more how I got to Stefan hill.

Christian Eggeling: Because, at the end of class, it is time I somehow feel tired and and and there was close connection to a biotech company and there was evil.

Christian Eggeling: and evil tech used to send spectroscopy techniques, especially a single molecule like fcs and so on.

Christian Eggeling: To do high throughput screening, so I went there and I worked for two years they're great time as well, I learned I lost my my fear about biology and some because I had to work a lot with biologist to get the SE working and discuss with them, how can we analyze, this is a great time.

Christian Eggeling: But then, after two years, because it was always project driven we scientists, we want to look right, left no one possible because there was so much love to look at this or this wasn't, of course, because it's project driven and.

Peter O'Toole: Of course he comes.

Christian Eggeling: commercially and then I remember, I was.

Christian Eggeling: Living back then, with my my my girlfriend now wife and I told her.

Christian Eggeling: Academic where do I go and I made a list of different people and one of these people on the list was different hell, because I knew him he just started at the Max Planck Institute, where I did my PhD before I left you know, so in my last year.

Christian Eggeling: of class item, so we knew each other and and he was one of the first person on my list I was about to call him and then one night.

Christian Eggeling: That the phone rings, like my girlfriend picks up and says it Stephen hill so Stephen help called me and he asked me Kristen do you know anybody.

Christian Eggeling: would be interested in yon fcs and driving it maybe into super resolution and so on, and I said, well, maybe I bring in my name and he said, well, I didn't want to ask directly and that's.

Peter O'Toole: Of course.

and

Christian Eggeling: Then yeah and then we started with Stefan and that was back when he was just a few years after he was coming a director at the Max points and the possibilities we had there was was was great and.

Christian Eggeling: I and Stefan got along very I would say he was my best person i've ever had.

Christian Eggeling: It was, it was a great time because we respected each other, a lot I knew what I had from him and he knew what he what he had for me and and that's just we were getting and was a fantastic time that's why I stayed there for over eight years and.

Christian Eggeling: yeah.

Christian Eggeling: That was such a fantastic I remember when I went to his place there was back in 2004 and so some people told don't go there will never work so.

Christian Eggeling: We got it to work, I mean and and there was a great time and back then, I mean this was the early days of super resolution you had a new idea yeah you realize that.

Christian Eggeling: You got it published and motivated everybody yeah and, of course, a lot of these ideas in we didn't proceed further, but still so fantastic time that in the environment or Stephen was given us a lot of freedom.

Peter O'Toole: Excellent.

Christian Eggeling: Very good, I think.

Peter O'Toole: That was a good laugh, but you just said that he gave you a lot of freedom, so he enabled you to to research.

Christian Eggeling: Yes, I mean every research, so I was kind of the person in the middle yeah was taken care of a lot of PhD students also postdocs and lost the students.

Christian Eggeling: Of course, every project that a clear guideline, who was also discussed with us, and so on, and stephens ideas were in there as well, and so clearly yeah but then realizing it we realized it in something, and we had a lot of freedom and.

Christian Eggeling: That was good and then discussing it with Stefan you always attended very good ideas, and so it wasn't very constructive environment I thinking back on that time, we also had a very good team, back then, I mean a lot of the guys, of course, they ended up in a very long and.

Christian Eggeling: It was fantastic teams and some people who now moved on and been part of that time, back then, they said oh this well the golden times because they enjoyed it as well.

Peter O'Toole: As one as one of the questions I was going to ask when when was the best time in your career, so far, when, would you say was the most if you could.

I mean.

Christian Eggeling: I had so many times, my in my PhD time, which was closed when we got it all running, it was a great time because we had so many ideas and we could follow them up, it was great.

Christian Eggeling: Evil tech was also good, I mean I enjoyed it a lot, and it was was a fantastic time there as well, because we're a lot of young people there and on.

Christian Eggeling: And they were Stefan I mean you can see that this this super resolution time at the beginning, and this excitement there was going on, of course, at some point it got political.

Christian Eggeling: Clearly, we can talk about this later, once it got political because people realize hey this could get a Nobel Prize and then, then it gets a little bit very political but that's no I mean that's that's how it goes, but then my Oxford team now.

Christian Eggeling: Such an unbelievable I mean.

Christian Eggeling: And I was seeing it all this disassembled was was a great time because such a good unity and people work together and especially because I wasn't enough building up things so I was only there once a month still have worked now because it was a team that was great and now in INA.

Christian Eggeling: See picking up again getting there.

Peter O'Toole: So you.

Christian Eggeling: know was was.

Christian Eggeling: You asked before, how was it with the team yeah, how do you build up a team called rowan atkinson and I remember the first retreat, because you, which was last summer.

Christian Eggeling: It was so relaxed and people was enjoying it so much because we could go out as as a team, we went rafting it was one of the rivers, they were great.

Christian Eggeling: We stayed up late at night, and someone on.

Peter O'Toole: Your job sure you sent me a picture.

Christian Eggeling: yeah after often yeah we did we did we did.

Christian Eggeling: There it is yeah, but when we just started the rafting yeah and it was just was beginning September last year and this was the real first road trip that we could do as it as a group together and.

Christian Eggeling: You can relax and we really enjoy it.

Peter O'Toole: that's a huge group if that's a new group.

Christian Eggeling: It is the others also that we we got a.

Christian Eggeling: junior professor in there as well, because john Franklin who used to be.

Christian Eggeling: PhD student with mark was our and then he moved on, as opposed to this, and now he is and his team it's great to have in there, so we we, in principle, we are one team we work so closely together.

Peter O'Toole: You did send a few PICs the other team, I presume this is.

Christian Eggeling: This is also yeah I think I bet this No, this is some time, other than this was late at night, so you see in the Left upper corner, you see i'm Kristen funky.

Christian Eggeling: But otherwise you're in the mood in the front there's probably one of my great postdocs in the background behind me there's Francisco also back postdoc who was with me already PhD and all sorts so.

Christian Eggeling: Do you know stay as well as he was with me in Oxford as well, so so few people moved along.

Peter O'Toole: So this may be the same night that you send to quite a few pictures of this is only picked out a few.

Peter O'Toole: See you say oh yeah.

Christian Eggeling: No, no, this is this Oxford, this is dominic dominic ways this is this.

case.

Christian Eggeling: You must know not dominate from.

Peter O'Toole: yeah, of course.

Christian Eggeling: yeah I mean it was great on that.

Christian Eggeling: She also the facility in Oxford with with Chris log on.

Christian Eggeling: dominic way and so on, and we had fantastic cool managers over the years.

Christian Eggeling: Fantastic time it was and Chris and I were just a good team, now we rely completely on zoom we could rely on john.

Christian Eggeling: He knew my backup when you needed it and otherwise I knew he's going to take the right decisions.

Peter O'Toole: I will say.

Christian Eggeling: The same with dominic me what a wonderful guy.

Peter O'Toole: Before we go off this picture I do notice that actually so on, then photo bond.

Christian Eggeling: A bond that's yeah that's that's outage and it was a fun guy in the group, but he was also one of the most productive guys here yeah this is this is there, we laughed and then we had so.

Christian Eggeling: I think there's this other picture, where which.

Peter O'Toole: I have it.

Peter O'Toole: I love it I got the sense only picks up the lab drinking.

Peter O'Toole: started a nice and I presume the next picture for those who are listening it's just a fun picture.

that's.

Peter O'Toole: Like you see the way you got your arms folded.

Christian Eggeling: You asked yeah exactly.

Christian Eggeling: But this, this was an odd sort of them and I enjoy always the POPs in Oxford, but we enjoy now the stuff in you know world, so this is, I think this is our one of our group, events in this is Oxford, I think.

Christian Eggeling: Yes, because somebody sent me a lot of books with pictures and that's why I was so funny many fun pictures now.

Peter O'Toole: But but but to you obviously got this warm side of teams got a kiss team spirit you're going up and down Where on earth are you hit this this.

Christian Eggeling: This is this last year.

Christian Eggeling: Actually, this is our first.

Christian Eggeling: Three years three day retreat in in a group and we went to some mountains south of you know yeah and it wasn't and winter kicked in again winter kicked in again the next day, actually, it was that pile of snow that area, we went we went for a hike to a small waterfall and.

Christian Eggeling: We enjoyed it there, we had a lot of drinking and a lot of seminars and and we did a good mix of science and so on, and everybody presented themselves yeah.

Christian Eggeling: Then we had some discussions about communications and so on, that I didn't organize it was my group organizing it and they.

Christian Eggeling: said hey this is how I picture communication I could jump in and say hey we could tune it this way, and we had a group discussion and I remember it was it really was not a fancy place and something like this and Nick opposites, to the seminar room it said disco.

Christian Eggeling: And I said, I have to look into the so it was very old fashioned disco room at this this ball and then the plus.

Christian Eggeling: sign on it, and I said hey one night we just have to have a disco here, we have to have a dancing and the last night we just danced until I don't know very late in the morning and that's.

Christian Eggeling: that's what you need to bring a group together, but, of course, you need now, you need, of course, you need you need a you need a boss, who also is open to this.

Peter O'Toole: I was going to ask the importance of the retreats I think you just, you said that just at the end, it brings the group together, and that means work better together in the lab even more efficient, but they'll think more freely.

Christian Eggeling: Exactly I that's what I that's my I think that's what my people like that's how the feedback, at least I get from my group and it's my they enjoy it so much because I treat everybody with respect.

Christian Eggeling: No matter who it is I try to treat them with respect and second is I try to motivate them, but I also try to give them a lot of free and and sometimes I know Okay, they want to go this route, I know it's gonna.

Christian Eggeling: Not gonna lead to the result, but sometimes people need to experience that and if I know okay it's only going to take a couple of days until they realize that.

Christian Eggeling: And usually to us and that's my nothing that motivates people as well, when they realize themselves.

Christian Eggeling: They get the ideas themselves that's what I tried to do that's how I it's my I don't I don't control it much, of course, some people need controlling.

Christian Eggeling: So people like that they are wrong in my group, because I don't control I don't have the time, but I also wonder, I want the people to develop and develop our own ideas as.

Peter O'Toole: To how have you coped when you've had someone I don't know, whatever that needs controlling that they need more advice, they need.

Christian Eggeling: The Arden I tried to eat more often not often but I tried to get them give them confidence, so they take it.

Peter O'Toole: But you must have failed.

Christian Eggeling: In some cake, because I feel.

Christian Eggeling: I feel you know, of course I failed in cases everybody fails.

Christian Eggeling: yeah perfect yeah.

Peter O'Toole: How did you cope with that.

Christian Eggeling: I had some some people we just didn't fit together, and then we realized that we need to separate.

Christian Eggeling: And then we separated but.

Christian Eggeling: We went our ways that person went this way and it worked so at the end also we got something out of that time so.

Christian Eggeling: yeah, of course, we had some some I also had some difficult times, and then I had also also doing stefan's time I had some people, which I had to supervise which very difficult yeah but.

Christian Eggeling: that's but let's be honest that's also the excitement about the job to to to adapt to this whole different characters and these different nationalities, with all their different cultural attitudes and that's the exciting thing about the job that's what.

Peter O'Toole: It is you're extremely positive i'm an extremely positive person to, but I think sometimes, as you say, sometimes it doesn't work, and you have to go your own ways.

Christian Eggeling: yeah.

Peter O'Toole: Why not really.

Peter O'Toole: Like like I failed yeah I have not been able to get to have not been able to change more.

Christian Eggeling: information.

Christian Eggeling: happened to me, and it was a tough time was a rough time for all of us and.

Christian Eggeling: But you learn out of that as well.

Christian Eggeling: I didn't expect them to be honest, I didn't mistakes yeah and.

Christian Eggeling: yeah but you learn out of it, and next time you can do it better, and one thing I learned, all of this is always trust your gut feeling.

Christian Eggeling: If you hire a new person or you hire somewhere else, and you have something just even if it's a tiny little thing in your guts and you feel something is wrong.

Christian Eggeling: don't do it that's my advice I can give everyone because that's my experience the moment I still did something, although my gut feeling said it's not 100% right.

Christian Eggeling: It didn't get a disaster, but sometimes got a disaster or it was it was just not going well.

Peter O'Toole: yeah that's.

Christian Eggeling: What I try to.

Christian Eggeling: Listen to.

Peter O'Toole: People can interview, they can rehearse interviews and the reason.

Peter O'Toole: You do have to get on with your colleagues.

Peter O'Toole: And you do have to be on a similar wavelength.

Peter O'Toole: To to, especially the research that you know I think it's slightly different to an office environment not completely, but you have to bounce off each other.

Peter O'Toole: yeah I think that's you got it you got to be on a similar wavelength to bounce.

Christian Eggeling: yeah exactly exactly i'm not everybody's on the same wavelength, and now getting these people together as well, or you get them working in such a way that they don't.

Christian Eggeling: interact too much that's what you have to do sometimes as well, you have to get certain people not to interact too much because they are just not on the same wavelength.

Christian Eggeling: let's be honest, not everybody can be on the same wavelength and that's why it's.

Christian Eggeling: And you don't don't force things and then you can't you know you can't get a group such a large group and you've seen that the group picture and especially with all the bachelor students master students in song.

Christian Eggeling: At the German university it's growing so quickly and that's one mistake blogs, and I would say i've made a group too quickly and then co owner came and so that was difficult but.

Christian Eggeling: Not everybody can get along and it's why you can't create something that is full of harmon and, but you can you can you can give people self assurance and motivation and when they have that I think even small discipline just balances get along with him.

Peter O'Toole: He coped with a stressful times wanted yeah how'd you how'd you relax back at home.

Christian Eggeling: How do I relax.

Christian Eggeling: yeah well, sometimes I had difficulties relaxing because there were the kids, especially now with corona know, then, then it was homeschooling I was the teacher.

Peter O'Toole: Typically, these your children.

Christian Eggeling: And then the other two so younger one yeah that's it.

Christian Eggeling: They are a little bit older, now we are in the mountains.

Christian Eggeling: And this.

Christian Eggeling: yeah this my wife and my two girls so i'm surrounded by girls.

Christian Eggeling: Of course I relax a lot with them enjoy being around with them, and I wish I could be more I mean I missed a lot to a lot of the time because I wasn't there during the week and and and.

Christian Eggeling: And, but I I enjoy luck with being around.

Peter O'Toole: that's true because I what I guess maybe one advantage of creativity is you weren't traveling every weekend.

Peter O'Toole: yeah you didn't have.

Christian Eggeling: I was.

Christian Eggeling: As often I was traveling I was, I was enjoying going also on conferences and stuff like this and I change that a little bit i'm not traveling so much in cutting this down and not also because, being a German university professor, with all this lecturing going on don't have the time just.

Peter O'Toole: fine balance you're lecturing research.

Christian Eggeling: Last semester was a catastrophe was too much lecturing and hardly research be honest that's why you need a good team somebody has to do, the signs and.

Christian Eggeling: The lattice walking slowly and that's why I, I often do it like this, I have one or two days a week, where I where people know it's where where we have a meetings from morning to evening, and then I talked to everybody, I don't put in minutes to 45 to nine hours and.

Christian Eggeling: one after the other, so and i'm done for the day at the end of the day I enjoy it science it's not bureaucracy it's not brands it's not, although I enjoy lecturing I enjoy lecturing it's it's fun trying to.

Christian Eggeling: stuff in the right order so you picture yourself with a understand this trying to to to teach I mean this is.

Christian Eggeling: Clearly, trying to teach people step microscopy who didn't hear about microscopy before.

Christian Eggeling: And then slowly getting there, why is there a deflection limit and stuff like this just had a another example, this morning when we asked about this, what do you see, I asked him then we'd asked slowly went to the super resolution then ask them because it's a lecture footman a fifth semester.

Christian Eggeling: On biophysical methods and one part is, of course, optical markers and when I asked them, so if I save step microscope, what do you see what do you see and one guy even he said I see it, or not yeah that's exactly what I want.

Christian Eggeling: Then they they I know that, but they were pretty good.

Christian Eggeling: aquatic everyone but, of course, then also inspire physical lectures I built in very current stuff like viruses immune system and stuff like this because we do a little research on viruses and.

Christian Eggeling: That was received very, very well and talking about vaccines and so on, and I mean you know the enjoyment either the discussion about vaccination was much more let's say intense, especially in the media and.

Peter O'Toole: That.

Christian Eggeling: was very important and I talked.

Christian Eggeling: To people to a certain level where they could easily even as non experts as physicists puts see if they seen something on the news, whether this is nonsense, or whether this could be true.

Christian Eggeling: And you can get the people pretty pretty well to that level, and I did also public lectures on that also in high schools and stuff like this.

Christian Eggeling: say.

Christian Eggeling: candy modern axioms.

Peter O'Toole: Thinking about those 20 year olds are in the lectures the PhDs that you've had you going into schools, if I take you back when you were a child, what did you want to be, then, if you.

Christian Eggeling: didn't I didn't know back then I didn't have any idea, and this is usually also Dr researches I.

Christian Eggeling: I just let myself flow into a certain direction, which is interesting to me and and let's be honest in school I quickly realized, because my father, he was a teacher in math and chemistry, so I was very good at.

Christian Eggeling: math physics and so on, and.

Christian Eggeling: I choose because it was easy for me, I know, students and that's why I went for physics and then, when.

Christian Eggeling: I thought about the or what do I study and thought math nice to to to theoretically, and then I ended up studying finance and even do my physics time I wasn't really sure where does this lead me, so I just.

Christian Eggeling: went on, just like not after my PhD I went to a biotech company when I went back to sign academic songs.

Peter O'Toole: To how many of your current lab or physicists how many biologist.

Christian Eggeling: is good question.

Christian Eggeling: Of course it's a little bit more physicists, although we get more and more biologists, because we have a lot of biology projects ology to driven projects and.

Christian Eggeling: As far as how the Katrina from my group kind of intellect lynskey was who has been with me also not so it already, and she always says, we need more biologist and so on, and she's kind of.

Christian Eggeling: building up a small biology hub, and so on, but what you can see, also due to my biophysics connections those people that joined the biophysics connections, a lot of them asked hey can we work in your lap for a while, or can we do petula and so on, because they enjoy.

Christian Eggeling: Seeing the life science applications of of physics and that combined with students, they are uncertain people that like that, no, of course, not offices which would of course be terrible if everybody would love.

Peter O'Toole: How did you find going from physics into the life science world because that's.

Christian Eggeling: My two cents microscope but let's be honest.

Christian Eggeling: what's the Nice.

Christian Eggeling: occasion fluorescent microscopy slicing and, as I said, the main drive wasn't with erotic because I went to a biotech.

Christian Eggeling: was a lot of technology development there, but of course the application was high throughput screening and so on, back then, still in vitro mostly.

Christian Eggeling: But they started themselves, and then, when I went with Stefan yeah, of course, was kind of a jump back yeah but we realized Okay, we can show it so much on beats and so on, but.

Christian Eggeling: We need, we need to show it in in biology and so with showed all the cell biology, the cell images.

Christian Eggeling: But at the end now, we showed it works, but to really show the people that it's valuable have to test it in a good environment with real biomedical vision that's why, when I got the offer from Oxford.

Christian Eggeling: To build up a facility in in a biomedical in a medical environment, what a fantastic opportunity that's.

Christian Eggeling: kind of what I was waiting on I remember over the years I got a lot of offers, because of course super resolution was big.

Christian Eggeling: And a person that was at that level yeah like me and stefan's group of course people wanted me somewhere yeah and then I went to Oxford and it was to medical for me and this guy.

Christian Eggeling: He he persuaded me just come by and take a look now was there and suddenly I realized exactly what I was just talking about this is an opportunity now.

Christian Eggeling: Now went back, and I remember and having a meeting on one weekend, he was Stefan and I showed him the brochure of this this institution of the winner and before he always said no kristen's David.

Christian Eggeling: you're better off you you look, and I remember this, you look through there five minutes we didn't talk at all, then he took the brochure put it on the table look me in the eyes and said, because then you have to do this.

Christian Eggeling: And it's all open to us.

Peter O'Toole: and good advice.

Christian Eggeling: yeah that's why he was always good good advice also now I mean we don't talk that much anymore, but from time to time still and it's always very, very good.

Peter O'Toole: i'm gonna change tack and ask some quickfire questions yeah Okay, so are you an early bird or a night owl.

Christian Eggeling: yeah.

Christian Eggeling: what's the early bird.

Peter O'Toole: All night owl.

Christian Eggeling: Oh Nice.

Peter O'Toole: Nice oh yeah PC or MAC.

Christian Eggeling: See.

Peter O'Toole: Okay mcdonald's or burger king.

Christian Eggeling: burger king, you know why, because my my my daughter has celiac disease and burger king is much easier with celiac disease.

Okay.

Peter O'Toole: what's your what's your favorite if you were to be invites that food, what are your favorite food.

Christian Eggeling: Chinese food I love Chinese food.

Peter O'Toole: Okay, and what will be your work will be the worst food so unconcerned be.

Christian Eggeling: uncertain and German foods, I grew up which I just would say.

Christian Eggeling: which I I don't I don't like mustard.

Christian Eggeling: I don't so if anything was that, and there was this this this food, it was boiled eggs was put teachers in its source mustard sauce and the whole House was smelling product and it's awful people love it I just hate it and even if I smell mustard today.

Christian Eggeling: No, no that's.

Peter O'Toole: that's a good answer I can understand why coffee or tea.

Christian Eggeling: Rather tea, but in principle, none of them.

Christian Eggeling: I like to drink water.

Christian Eggeling: yeah good times.

Peter O'Toole: next question was wine or beer.

Christian Eggeling: I grew up in north of Germany let's be a country.

Christian Eggeling: Ah that's asked a blogger.

Peter O'Toole: What what I was gonna say German beer or British am.

Christian Eggeling: Sorry German beer.

Christian Eggeling: I remember at the beginning and oxygen Chris lag on he really tried hard on me, we had any kind of Lager I am he tried every alien.

Christian Eggeling: And it's just too sweet for me it's too sweet I like like this really bitter beer yeah but not sweet it's there's always a sweet taste to these isn't, although I love to go in a UK pop I always enjoyed it.

Christian Eggeling: Also, back then, when my when my brother did his PhD in London, we had a lori has nights and in London.

Christian Eggeling: Oh, I never got used to the am yeah.

Peter O'Toole: Of course, actually, some of the Oxford pubs are sending it back to Oxford in their policies really good actually and that's coming from Yorkshire, which which yeah.

Christian Eggeling: not bad.

Peter O'Toole: it's very good, but it costs a fortune at Oxford viewpoint is very expensive.

Christian Eggeling: And when once on a pub to I don't remember visit you guys once now, and these guys took me out, it was a hell of a night, I think I got I had to get up very early in the morning, I was, I was, but we had a very good night.

Peter O'Toole: yeah we do have some very good yeah it.

Christian Eggeling: Was it was a very good night.

Peter O'Toole: Chocolate or cheese.

Christian Eggeling: cheese.

Peter O'Toole: been a sweetness I was gonna guess cheese anyway book or TV.

Christian Eggeling: what's the first.

Peter O'Toole: book or TV.

Christian Eggeling: I love both to be honest, I need to I love TV to relax yeah I love to read a good book as well, so I I it's even 5050 words.

Peter O'Toole: Today let's think about this, what sort of books, do you read what sort of genre what type of book.

Christian Eggeling: I love I love kind of funny books and something like this often love to there are some some especially German authors that very, very good way of writing and I love to read this.

Peter O'Toole: Okay, and what sort of TV, do you watch.

Christian Eggeling: TV now with my girls I mainly watch streaming I use I grew up, of course, with with normal TV normal TV stations and so on.

Christian Eggeling: yeah, I think, and of course I try to stay up I love to watch the news be honest yeah but otherwise I love to watch.

Christian Eggeling: A to relax on an honor on a good movie.

Christian Eggeling: And, and of course i'm i'm i'm.

Christian Eggeling: i'm pretty broad yeah I don't like heroes, or something like this, but but science fiction every everything.

Peter O'Toole: Okay, so science fiction Star Wars or star trek, what is your preference TV.

Christian Eggeling: So mean one I don't know, I was a big fan of star trek and I have to admit that recently I looked into the old star trek stuff nothing they're very old one i'm a fan of Gianluca but.

Christian Eggeling: I love them yeah a star wars good one as well.

Peter O'Toole: Be more trek have you watched.

picard.

Christian Eggeling: I did I did, but not the second I.

Peter O'Toole: watching the second at the moment.

Christian Eggeling: Oh, is it, how is this good.

Peter O'Toole: yeah good yes good i'm watching my youngest son and finding time for both together at the same.

Christian Eggeling: yeah that's that's a problem i'm watching.

Now.

Christian Eggeling: yeah i'm doing the same that's why we didn't get to the second but I I watched the first one and.

Christian Eggeling: There was a show on, I think it was an Amazon expanse did you watch them.

Peter O'Toole: I don't watch that much they're actually because why.

Christian Eggeling: I didn't it was doing corona times I watched a little bit off more often, because I had to record my lectures at night, and then I had to come down and then I watched I watched this experience good one, you want to see a good science fiction expands that's.

Peter O'Toole: Good to see i'm not big into science fiction.

Peter O'Toole: I bet bet picard and star trek i'll make an exception.

Christian Eggeling: yeah because it's.

Christian Eggeling: epic I was good.

Christian Eggeling: Because it was cool and i'm I want to find the time to look at the second season, but didn't find the times.

Peter O'Toole: What is your favorite film.

Christian Eggeling: My favorite film.

Christian Eggeling: yeah, this is not a science fiction that two favorite films.

Christian Eggeling: One is big lebowski the.

Other one is.

Christian Eggeling: that's my favorite ones and and I had people like also add in sometimes we we try to communicate in sentences of big lebowski.

Christian Eggeling: And you can do that, you can do a whole communicate only with sentences from big lebowski and I had this PhD student instead on health group, and it was an American guy Ryan, and we often.

Peter O'Toole: and

Peter O'Toole: he's paid to favorite films that's in Pulp Fiction And what about do you have a favorite Christmas phil.

Christian Eggeling: favorite Christmas boom.

Peter O'Toole: yeah.

Christian Eggeling: Come on the gris was always good Andy so.

Christian Eggeling: that's a good one.

Peter O'Toole: and national lampoon's Christmas.

Christmas that's that's.

Christian Eggeling: that's a good one i'd love to watch this.

Peter O'Toole: Did you watch it.

Peter O'Toole: As if I say, do you watch it every year your daughters.

Christian Eggeling: Now, not every year, but we watch it off.

Peter O'Toole: it's always good to have something that's.

dictating.

Peter O'Toole: Germany or UK.

Christian Eggeling: I can you feel you for German, I had a great time in UK and I always love to come back there but it's it's my my my home countries and that's my German.

Christian Eggeling: sorry about that I also a big fan of riches football teams and so on, but when JEREMY plays the UK of England.

Christian Eggeling: I have to be for Germany.

Christian Eggeling: Germany got.

Christian Eggeling: world champion when I was in coxless second year.

Christian Eggeling: There was a good one.

Peter O'Toole: Actually here's a question in the UK, the England German games are probably the biggest game yeah that that's how our bibles in football, is it the same in Germany or where your arch rivals, did you have a different tribal.

Christian Eggeling: are no, you know what I like about German england's of course it's a big rivalry and it can be get nasty but on the other hand, and that's my feeling all the time and that's how I know my friends and that's what I got also in England is.

Christian Eggeling: What is so special about Germany, England, that in principle we respected them.

Christian Eggeling: We know England is good and the English know the Germans are good yeah and, and that makes it so special and because in principle there's a lot, a lot of respect not like when Germany plays plays Netherlands.

Christian Eggeling: that's that's why I mean that's that's just walk in they I don't know why they just keep it on yeah and when it comes to football now.

Peter O'Toole: That Christian I really thought.

Christian Eggeling: I think.

Christian Eggeling: I think Germany against England is it's more it's always some kind of respect behind it that's a feeling.

Peter O'Toole: I I really thought you're gonna say that respect that you know the Brits know that the Germans are good and the Germans know that they're better than the Brits at football.

Christian Eggeling: No, no, no, no.

Christian Eggeling: I mean come on come on what kicked by by by an awesome couple of times so.

Christian Eggeling: We shouldn't be that arrogance so.

Christian Eggeling: moment I don't know who's the better team at the moment, England, as a good.

Peter O'Toole: let's not go they're.

Peter O'Toole: going to keep these thoughts day because I know that you're.

Peter O'Toole: Not just a keen runner but a very competitive athlete and you sent me from this is obviously not that recent, I can tell by the hair.

Christian Eggeling: No yeah I look younger it's been a while yeah it's been a while, but.

Peter O'Toole: Also distance.

Christian Eggeling: phone hurdles.

Peter O'Toole: 100 meter hurdles.

Christian Eggeling: And 400 hurdles and I was pretty high up, so I was at the national track meetings I even got national student champion months, so I think this is even at that event I don't know.

Why.

Christian Eggeling: funny short there so.

Peter O'Toole: What was your time than I am not very good at format me 200.

Christian Eggeling: yeah well there was there was just around 52 seconds.

Peter O'Toole: Was the world record at the moment.

Christian Eggeling: At the moment, come on their their crazy went down below 47 seconds, but mainly.

Peter O'Toole: For that you're really clear oh sorry 47 and 52 and you're just in the nationals here that's not far off, is it really and.

Christian Eggeling: This you know I mean the.

Christian Eggeling: The women, the best women run about that.

Peter O'Toole: that's just an incredible like you, almost and I found these quite entertaining these pictures, so you sent me a picture of the team.

Christian Eggeling: yeah That was the four by four really.

Peter O'Toole: I was getting the hurdles or just four by.

Christian Eggeling: 400 oh my just for my fault, no there's no not really on.

Christian Eggeling: Point on WHO.

Peter O'Toole: will buy for.

Peter O'Toole: ice.

Peter O'Toole: King at the faces here, and this is a group photo you all together, and no one smiling.

Christian Eggeling: You know why, because it was just right after and you know what is the most said, I think we got champion there, it was we got student champions.

Christian Eggeling: And so we did this, this was a I mean there, we ran a very, very good time I remember that and we were just exhausted there's also another picture it couldn't find it, I was.

Christian Eggeling: Laying on the ground, somebody pictured me from above, and I just looked completely exhausted because let's be honest on from the.

Christian Eggeling: From the short exhaustion that you can get think phone or 400 orders, is one of the most crucial ones, I mean, of course, not as cruel as.

Christian Eggeling: running a marathon after after 30 kilometers or doing the Tour de France or something like this, but on a short time, time is one of the bad because the last 100 meters it's just been let's be honest it's just paying because you get so much into the.

Christian Eggeling: yeah you so much over to wear it and.

yeah.

Peter O'Toole: and

Peter O'Toole: If you actually look bigger there, then you do now.

Christian Eggeling: Now, of course, I was, I was bigger than my muscles and stuff it's awesome I did more practice begins at.

Peter O'Toole: Did you look looking at your teammates tell me you ran the first leg.

Christian Eggeling: I did run the first.

Peter O'Toole: yeah you could you just look a little less exhausted by.

Christian Eggeling: Exactly I, like the others yeah.

Christian Eggeling: And I think guess who run the last one, it was.

Peter O'Toole: On your wall next to you, I presume.

Christian Eggeling: No, no, no, he wasn't one on the very left.

Peter O'Toole: yeah also looking at her.

Christian Eggeling: It was a fun team.

Peter O'Toole: So, what are you running now.

Christian Eggeling: what's it.

Peter O'Toole: What do you do now from running.

Christian Eggeling: You still there, I just I just run my my five kilometers half an hour something like this just for fun, I even don't take my watch along.

Peter O'Toole: Now i'm sorry five kilometers and 30 minutes I don't believe you're taking.

Christian Eggeling: 30 minutes to do law it's not.

Christian Eggeling: Maybe might be six six kilometers I see I don't take the time anymore, and sometimes I feel good and then I realized that are probably it's it's it's instead in that fast and sometimes I mean you must, you must know that as well, sometimes you can start running and immediately realize.

Peter O'Toole: yeah some days you've been CZ other days six.

Christian Eggeling: I take my.

Christian Eggeling: Take my daughter along sometimes.

Christian Eggeling: yeah I really have to push her at these days when it's pretty hot out here, if I look outside is about 30 degrees and but maybe we go for a run later this afternoon, this evenings.

Peter O'Toole: And does she enjoy it.

Christian Eggeling: I don't know.

Christian Eggeling: Much I just take a long, and since he's staying with it, so let you know, but I don't I did 15 years of competitive sports I don't need any competition I just do it for fun.

Christian Eggeling: I do my exercises for my back and for my.

Christian Eggeling: muscles a little bit and so on, but i'm not doing it so series and and you asked myself when when do you relax that's one moment when I relax yeah please I always when I go to conferences, I always have my running shoes along you know I bet you too yeah.

Christian Eggeling: yeah but fun exploring cities or something like this, for example, when I was in New York, I was giving a talk there, I went with the with the subway somewhere, so I could run.

Christian Eggeling: In the Hyde Park, which is always in the movies, you know, and then I was running along this path, which you see in the movie and nowadays when I watch something with my kids that's why I ran as one so and.

Christian Eggeling: that's what I.

Christian Eggeling: often point out when there was one conference in board or something like this and I just ran through the whole old city of Bordeaux and got to know it.

Christian Eggeling: By completely got lost I remember that I got so lost and and I didn't know where I was, I was exhausted, and it was.

Christian Eggeling: Five or 30 minutes, and it was degrees and I think if I was at 45 minutes and I didn't have anything to bring and then I looked at some I think some bus plan, and then I realized okay i'm going to this leverage.

Peter O'Toole: Now I don't have any got lost twice in cities and it's not a good fit I think I was actually first up to give a talk on the morning of getting lost in one of them, I feel I am now in real trouble.

Christian Eggeling: I often go for a run.

Christian Eggeling: In front of my talks and but then I take it easy.

Peter O'Toole: it's not yeah it's it's.

This one thing that.

Christian Eggeling: there's one thing about competition yeah.

Christian Eggeling: When when you have competition yeah I mean you run, especially during summertime you run every weekend, and I mean you are nervous.

Christian Eggeling: Like crazy yeah and that's why i'm i'm pretty I can very good very well scope with was being nervous and being excited and so on, so I quit my when I did do my studies my tests and so on.

Christian Eggeling: I could scope with this very, very easily because I got to know this from competition, and of course you can also I mean with competition you learn to grow really beyond your limits yeah just like you would.

Christian Eggeling: go beyond your limits and yeah sometimes in science, you have to go, you have to measure what you have to do a lot of stuff and, but this is one of the guys have the four guys, there is also.

Christian Eggeling: He wants discussed and he said no, you know there's one disadvantage we go beyond our limits we don't see the limits and sometimes it's not good, because you always stress yourself and so on.

Christian Eggeling: And we are at an age where we really have to watch out if we don't burn out that's what I realized that's why I have to look out for that and that's why, for example, was running i'm just.

Christian Eggeling: And I enjoyed every time I run and I come home, I feel good and then a few more motivated to do work on other things, or next week i'm going for four days hiking with my my younger daughter into the mountains here in Germany it's gonna be fun.

Peter O'Toole: that'll that'll be good, you mentioned running and competencies and you send a couple of pictures, so this is i'm guessing I can read it there's a second meeting of the super resolution us it.

Christian Eggeling: Was it was it was some it a little bit unclear i'm in the same way in the corner down.

Christian Eggeling: There wasn't a.

Peter O'Toole: lot for me.

Peter O'Toole: is really small but anyway so so these meetings is really important, in have another picture which.

Christian Eggeling: This was the big event from pickle client, this was that I love to go to this pecan meeting now because it was one of my first meetings where I gave a big talk as a PhD student and then I was invited there on the on the.

Christian Eggeling: anniversary meeting here and look at all the people who are there, I mean, then, is there, Stefan in front of me there is.

Christian Eggeling: mana everybody is now yeah and I was invited as well, so much it was it was great yeah it was the first big meeting, but I gave my talk and.

Christian Eggeling: A rumor I was giving a talk about photo bleaching and so on, and particularly these guys were sitting, I was that's when I was there I was nervous and, and here I am i'm invited to the anniversary great great event.

Peter O'Toole: I gotta say I don't want to offend anyone, but you look significantly younger than most their.

Peter O'Toole: Most.

Christian Eggeling: yeah but, most of them are older than me and let's be honest so.

Christian Eggeling: yeah I mean, who is who is roughly the same yarn Afghans, maybe I think he's only one or two years old and and the rest is a little bit older.

Peter O'Toole: So tell you see so just you know how you developed your own name your own develop that you are there, amongst.

Peter O'Toole: You know not P, as necessary, that every generation.

Christian Eggeling: yeah but I remember when I was one sitting on.

Christian Eggeling: yeah we were sitting with we were organizing I was organizing team, together with your female staff, I was organizing this.

Christian Eggeling: Is that there's always a big schools from the from the German physical society, and that is in their headquarter which is.

Christian Eggeling: At the Rhine river in a beautiful place yeah nia nia bond and and York and I were asked to organize such a school, so we invited all the people and we're sitting there in the evening.

Christian Eggeling: realizing We made it, we made it, we are, we are asked and it's only us who've been asked, not that we because I organized was there before, but I was kind of the working guy behind Stefan now.

Christian Eggeling: We did, and even one evening I remember Stefan called me and he said hey I would have time to combine tonight's giving a talk and then I told everybody hey.

Christian Eggeling: We have to delay the beers for another hour, I have a surprise guest tonight.

Christian Eggeling: Breaking and then suddenly Stefan in well then, for the students that Jonathan was of course right thing let's well realize demand, you made it and, and of course I had I had good teachers was close idol Stefan and so on, I have good people that already have done the name in the field.

Christian Eggeling: promoted me as well, I have to them lot.

Peter O'Toole: To i've got a question I don't think i've ever asked to guess before I should have asked them all, because I think this will be interesting, so I think it will be more split than most people most listeners actually think when you retire.

Peter O'Toole: Will you retire or will you want that emeritus data and carry on.

Christian Eggeling: dabbling in the background, I don't I don't I cannot see for sure, and when you would have asked me doing maybe Oxford times or Stefan health times when we did a lot of research and on.

Christian Eggeling: I would have said I swear every time I try to keep research running as well Oh well, I have to do so much bureaucracy so much administration was on.

Christian Eggeling: I sometimes, of course, because you're close to burning out now you just think I stopped immediately and I just do my hiking or to enjoy life now and.

Christian Eggeling: I can't tell you that I don't know how it develops we'll see we'll see in Germany it's more strict than in other countries, so you when you reach your retirement age.

Christian Eggeling: Usually, maybe you do one or two more years of teaching and only people like like Max Planck directors like Stefan or something like this kind of sticking them.

Christian Eggeling: let's I don't know I can't tell you will see, I have to see at the moment because the last two years have really been tough, I have to say.

Christian Eggeling: There were a lot of.

Christian Eggeling: Not so joyful times also, but of course this is also because of all the incidents that happened and I would say I don't enjoy life but who knows what I say in a couple of years.

Christian Eggeling: That the lab is running we producing the data and so on, because of course clearly going to be a dip me doing doing corona times.

Christian Eggeling: Because, of course, this is also because the stuff from Oxford I just talked to my poster this morning.

Christian Eggeling: One last paper out of Oxford times will come out because we did a couple of measurements in that's not done now that's the last one out of oxygen and now he knows picking up, but of course this transition.

Christian Eggeling: Somehow got delayed due to corona because we couldn't work on this as well, so I will have a really deep end to end corona times because you're my home schooling and someone I.

Peter O'Toole: Did I did say time ago fast, and we are just coming up to the hour mark already you send me one more picture, I have to show, so I thought was kind of cool.

Christian Eggeling: yeah this is.

Peter O'Toole: A Lego group.

Christian Eggeling: yeah this was this was an idea of Francesco right now, from my group because we couldn't go out there, we weren't allowed together yeah and and and then he had the idea okay i'm getting all these legal and.

Christian Eggeling: People and they look and make them look alike, some persons in the group yeah and then I placed in photoshop them in front of the among the famous monument yeah.

Christian Eggeling: I love this I often show that at the end of my talks.

Peter O'Toole: So so it's not Is it the same colors is.

Christian Eggeling: Just before corona this was a couple of people were already Nina but, most of them were still in Oxford, but we made a retreat.

Christian Eggeling: And I showed them INA now because I knew, some of them, people will come to to United some point and we had a fantastic three days, and you know enjoying science, but also drinking and stuff like this, or touring around and so on, and we made a group picture there in front of.

Peter O'Toole: It is this crowd easier or the Lego crowd easier.

Peter O'Toole: Now.

Christian Eggeling: Of course let's be honest, the crowd before was easier because it was real here the other one was doing doing corona times, but still I like I love the idea of consistent that's why I when I found this picture I saw.

Christian Eggeling: I have to, I have to send it to be.

Peter O'Toole: It is, it is a really good one, we are up to the hour Christian and actually we haven't covered a lot of ground but you know what it's been great talking.

Christian Eggeling: But it's been great I enjoyed it unbelievable that we already have an hour.

Christian Eggeling: I bet you could go on for another hour without notice and.

Peter O'Toole: So just yourself to a part two, at some point.

Christian Eggeling: yeah more than happy to do that.

Peter O'Toole: For all those have watched listened, please don't forget subscribe go go back you know.

Peter O'Toole: that there are some good guests coming up, which we've heard about today, some guests that we've heard about that already recorded we've heard from Christians day.

Peter O'Toole: But Christian it's been really good to hear your energies enthusiastic you know your energy your upbeat your positivity I think is brilliant, and long may that continue Christian.

Christian Eggeling: Thank you very much, thank you very much, Peter it's been great I love talking to you, and so, and hope to see you in person soon, then you take your ALE and I take my German beer all my Lager okay.

Peter O'Toole: I took.

Peter O'Toole: A couple of weeks time.

Peter O'Toole: Yes, Christian Thank you alright.

Peter O'Toole: Thanks guys Christian actually.